ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:35 am 
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bellofthedamned wrote:
"Some men are born great, some have greatness thrust upon them. It is often the latter who turn to evil."

...stuff...

One thing that worries me is that Ian only thinks he's in control. Perhaps Anilis is guiding him from within, sort of like subconscious imperatives that he must go here, he must do this. If that's true, I would wonder about her agenda. Last time we saw Nookie and Kawaii, they stated the elves were what -- replacements? If the elves were perhaps made to replace the gods, then will Anilis go seeking an elfin host? Sarine better watch her orifices before she gets some Anilis violation.


Elves replaced the dwarves? Trolls made to replace elves? Humanity are unexplained at this point, and quite frankly I take that as a certain abstract deity starting to gain more, and more influence.

My thoughts at this point are that if, and I use the word loosely, if Ian is now just a puppet-god, then Anilis has an agenda. There are 3 gods, she's only 1. It took 2 of them to create the primary races (with the wild card as per above), so if she's truly out there to fix the half elves, or to gain an elven host, she's taking her fucking time with both ways.

Consider: if she wanted elves, she'd have stoled Sarine back in that inn.

If she wanted to cure the half elves, then she'd probably transfer some of her power to the other halfbreed healers of the village. It's what I'd do, if I had that kinda power and that kinda ambition.

Suppose she isn't in control. Suppose that Ian doesn't know what he's doing either, and that he's simply so powerful, he's gained some kinda Akira super ability to resist the incredible drawbacks he's already shown.

If Ian died, would Anilis go with him? A soul is a soul, deity powerlevel or not.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:50 am 
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Likely, Anilis is forever. She's not just a deity, like your run of the mill goddess of the wood. She seems to be much more, like a true god. I doubt she can die, but her energy or "spirit" can pass from form to form.

If Ian died, I'd imagine we'd have the P'gogs coming to collect Anilis' essence and hide it away again.

You missed what I said. The P'gogs told Sarine and co. the elves were the gods attempt to create "repl--". Could be replications, could be replacements. My bet would go on replacements. The gods were tired, they didn't want to look over the world, they were going to leave it to the elves.

Ian's got free will, that's clear, but I just postulate that Anilis has some control in there. As for blasting Sarine, that was all Ian and his fear of elves. After all, he's an errant, and all his family is errant. I would fear them too.

I imagine Anilis' agenda, if she had one, would be to put the world right again. I just wonder what "putting it right" would mean. Leaving the elves in charge? Maybe.

Another thing that has bothered me is Exitalis. The elves say he/she is dead. I wonder, if that's true, and the gods are finite, who killed him? Anilis is nothing but a ball of energy, but still alive. Perhaps the elves did something to Exitalis? If so, I wonder if Anilis could be behind the Sarine-blasting. Perhaps even the gods fear the elves. After all, Sarine told us the elves were more than happy for the gods to withdraw, as they didn't like being told how to live.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:16 am 
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bellofthedamned wrote:
You missed what I said. The P'gogs told Sarine and co. the elves were the gods attempt to create "repl--". Could be replications, could be replacements. My bet would go on replacements. The gods were tired, they didn't want to look over the world, they were going to leave it to the elves.


I too think replacements, but not for the gods - for the poor schmucks on the old world that they ruined in their war.

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Another thing that has bothered me is Exitalis. The elves say he/she is dead. I wonder, if that's true, and the gods are finite, who killed him? Anilis is nothing but a ball of energy, but still alive. Perhaps the elves did something to Exitalis? If so, I wonder if Anilis could be behind the Sarine-blasting. Perhaps even the gods fear the elves. After all, Sarine told us the elves were more than happy for the gods to withdraw, as they didn't like being told how to live.


They elves didn't say Exitalis is dead - they said he's the God of Death, and thus not worshipped by the elves. I'm the one who said "hmm God of Death... could that perhaps be the god that died in the god-war Meji read about in the Lorenzel Excavations Vol I."

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Ah, so I made a false assumption.

But let's put it this way. The P'gogs haven't said a word about Exitalis. They know Anilis and Senilis well, but no word of Exi...maybe he is gone.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:33 pm 
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Forrest wrote:
bellofthedamned wrote:
You missed what I said. The P'gogs told Sarine and co. the elves were the gods attempt to create "repl--". Could be replications, could be replacements. My bet would go on replacements. The gods were tired, they didn't want to look over the world, they were going to leave it to the elves.


I too think replacements, but not for the gods - for the poor schmucks on the old world that they ruined in their war.


No, that's too close to the narcissistic genocidal eternal racial-childhood-enabling snowjob the Paedagousi were instructed to tell the elves. The gods probably don't give a rats ass about the world or anything in it beyond its ability to further their ends. Just what those are is still a mystery.

Forrest wrote:
bellofthedamned wrote:
Another thing that has bothered me is Exitalis. The elves say he/she is dead. I wonder, if that's true, and the gods are finite, who killed him? Anilis is nothing but a ball of energy, but still alive. Perhaps the elves did something to Exitalis? If so, I wonder if Anilis could be behind the Sarine-blasting. Perhaps even the gods fear the elves. After all, Sarine told us the elves were more than happy for the gods to withdraw, as they didn't like being told how to live.


They elves didn't say Exitalis is dead - they said he's the God of Death, and thus not worshipped by the elves. I'm the one who said "hmm God of Death... could that perhaps be the god that died in the god-war Meji read about in the Lorenzel Excavations Vol I."


I think that's anybody that read the comic, actually. I wasn't forum-active when that comic rolled around and I sure as hell had that thought. The theory that Exitalis is somehow connected to Luminosita/humanity, now that's dynamite. My version of it is that Luminosita is what happenned when a bunch of recently evicted from elven civilization humans found his 'corpse' in a swamp somewhere. Something like what happenned with Ian and Anilis, only with less good intentions and more nascent religous fundamentalism.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:02 pm 
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No One wrote:
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From this, it is reasonable for us to assume that the power Ian possesses would also be capable of merely changing an already existing person.

But Ian's body is poorly designed to channel the power on that level.

That's the curious thing... The goddess has to have a hell of a lot more power than Ian seems able to use. IS it due to the physical limitations of a flesh and blood body when it comes to channeling magic, or is there some other reason? And regardless, he can't heal everyone in town if he passes out each time he fries/heals someone.


Maybe it's due to a psychological limitation. So far, what has he failed to do since getting Anilis' power? Perhaps he can do anything he wants, if he just tries. (Isn't that frightening?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:11 pm 
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Kestenvarn wrote:
Sorcerer wrote:
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Why in the world do people keep bringing this up? It's not like half-elves are cursed, they just have physical defects with resistance to magic



Its that resistance to magic that keeps the healing from being perment

Are you not listening? The healing has already taken effect. It was successful - there is no resistance to break through, because it was already bypassed.

Did Meji "overcome" the resistance when she changed herself into a D-cup? The transformation DID take effect. By the standard you seem to be setting, the resistance should have been already beaten and she should have stayed that way.

But she didn't. The half-Elven magic resistance isn't a "you cast this spell on me and it doesn't work" type thing, but rather a "you cast this spell on me and a little later I'll change back" type thing. Reference here.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:14 pm 
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Was thinking of that, but not sure it's the same thing. Did she completely alter her composition, or just attempt to buff that single part?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:18 pm 
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Ian probably fixed that problem, since he obviously knows of it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:19 pm 
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Another good point. Might have purposely made the effects 'stick', if nothing else.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:25 pm 
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normalphil wrote:
Forrest wrote:
bellofthedamned wrote:
You missed what I said. The P'gogs told Sarine and co. the elves were the gods attempt to create "repl--". Could be replications, could be replacements. My bet would go on replacements. The gods were tired, they didn't want to look over the world, they were going to leave it to the elves.


I too think replacements, but not for the gods - for the poor schmucks on the old world that they ruined in their war.


No, that's too close to the narcissistic genocidal eternal racial-childhood-enabling snowjob the Paedagousi were instructed to tell the elves. The gods probably don't give a rats ass about the world or anything in it beyond its ability to further their ends. Just what those are is still a mystery.


Hmm, good point; I had been considering the Lorenzel texts' source to be of non-Elven origin, despite what it's translators thought, because of it's apparently contradictory nature with modern Elven mythology. They list more than three sets of coordinates amongst which were Anilis' resting place, and speak of a "group of gods", so I had figured this meant that there were more than three gods being spoken of there, thus contradicting the Elven story. But maybe there really are just three gods, and not all of those coordinates are the final resting places of deities - just a bunch of very important old Elven sites. Meji and Ian just both got really lucky. Hey, that deus ex machina spell is working after all... hell, maybe the <I>deus</I> at work here is Anilis herself, eh?

Quote:
I think that's anybody that read the comic, actually. I wasn't forum-active when that comic rolled around and I sure as hell had that thought. The theory that Exitalis is somehow connected to Luminosita/humanity, now that's dynamite. My version of it is that Luminosita is what happenned when a bunch of recently evicted from elven civilization humans found his 'corpse' in a swamp somewhere. Something like what happenned with Ian and Anilis, only with less good intentions and more nascent religous fundamentalism.


Ah... Kest (I presume) gave me credit for the idea on the Khymforumer speculation page of the wiki, so I figured maybe I was the first to mention it. I like your theory here, too... never thought that Luminosity might actually be a real god, since everyone outside Veracia, even the Elves (who I imagine ran into him personally when he came a'knockin' on their magical barrier, and some of whom have direct experience with genuine gods), seem to consider him a phoney.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Forrest wrote:
normalphil wrote:
No, that's too close to the narcissistic genocidal eternal racial-childhood-enabling snowjob the Paedagousi were instructed to tell the elves. The gods probably don't give a rats ass about the world or anything in it beyond its ability to further their ends. Just what those are is still a mystery.


Hmm, good point; I had been considering the Lorenzel texts' source to be of non-Elven origin, despite what it's translators thought, because of it's apparently contradictory nature with modern Elven mythology. They list more than three sets of coordinates amongst which were Anilis' resting place, and speak of a "group of gods", so I had figured this meant that there were more than three gods being spoken of there, thus contradicting the Elven story. But maybe there really are just three gods, and not all of those coordinates are the final resting places of deities - just a bunch of very important old Elven sites. Meji and Ian just both got really lucky. Hey, that deus ex machina spell is working after all... hell, maybe the <I>deus</I> at work here is Anilis herself, eh?

Perhaps the dwarves wrote the Lorenzel texts? After all, the goods did tell them the truth...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Kest, my question wasn't one of mechanics, but rather of mindset. I know that Ian may very well have the power to pull this off in spite of the tendancy of half elves to revert to their previous state. I'm just wondering why the half elves would buy into the concept when they have precious little evidence that there's anything to it.


Skjie wrote:
DarkLight140 wrote:
How do they know that with more power, the effects of the healing won't just last longer? Leah might change back in a few days or weeks, with the shift being just as painful as the first time. Why risk such pain- even their lives- on such a faint, slim hope? Everyone knows, and has known for hundreds of years, that half elves can't be healed. So Ian learned a few tricks... why buy into the chance that it's anything more?


You have obviously never been seriously ill before in your life. When a doctor tells you in all likelyhood you are going to die young, and your only hope is an unproven surgery/drugs/etc. you're going to take it, no matter how proven it is.


This is true. However, half elves are not necessarily going to die young- some at least live to be very old. Their lives may not be at all comfortable due to physical defects, but they are stable. In the case of some half elves, like Ian's sister, I would see being willing to chance it all on something like this, but in the case of someone like Leah I don't see why they'd risk it.

At the moment, I'm thinking that the vast majority of the half elves looking at Ian aren't really expecting or even hoping that he would accomplish much, but are rather just curious as to what exactly is happening. After all, they spend their lives in a miserable town in the middle of the desert and try specifically to avoid doing anything significant which might attract attention; even over the decades and centuries of their adult lives they probably don't see anything worthy of inspiring deranged babble about flying and gods and fantastical healing powers. Initially I forgot that just because they're waiting around outside, they don't necessarily think Ian is a cure-all; they might just not have anything better to do than wait around to see what's going on.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:10 pm 
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BandMan2K wrote:

Oh...and would someone change the topic date - It's Jan 19, not Jan 14. It's bad enough I'm 5 days away from my 25th B-Day, thusly I'm having to sort of be on the prowl to make sure nothing is done on that day...the last thing I want is to think I have to wait any more days to get it over with.


Sorry, done.

Also, thank you No One. I wanted to slap everyone who was talking about the resistance to magic that some half-elves have as if it were DnD resistance. Mostly because they were also bitching out someone who made a relevent point.

Speaking of, that is a very curious idea. If a Half-Elf's body reverts back to its normal state, what will happen if Leah's body tries to do the same, and what exactly did Ian do to fix that? We don't know specifically how magic in this world works, so it is hard to say, but did he permanently change the part of her that makes her body revert, or did he just change that part of her for the specific area he was fixing? Or, did he just write in an override? If it is only an override, will her body react to it at all? Meaning, when she goes to sleep (or whatever time her body "checks itself") will her body constantly be struggling with Ian's magic to try and revert her? And if he just changed her, same question. Will her body struggle against his magic, and what, if any, would be the effect on her?

I understand that his magic is very powerful at this point, but let's not go jumping to conclusions saying that it is "Godlike". Or, it may very well be "Godlike", but not in the same sense that most of us identify the concept of "God". This kind of magic obviously has some limitations and drawbacks, at least at present.

And, even if his magic *is* unstoppable, that could very well be worse for Leah, if the changes are something that her body feels it has to fight against.

Then again, of course, it has also been mention that since Ian knew of this he could have dealt with it on the fly, so he could have just re-written her body to the point where it thought that was how she had always been. If this is the case, would that also keep her from getting sick, like at Elf, at least for whatever region he changed? And, if he were to change the rest of the Half-Elves, could he change that as well? Sure, the process would be slow, but he might be able to do it. An even more interesting question is whether or not he would be able to fix the gene inside the Half-Elves that caused some Half-Elves to be true Errants.

I think that might be the saddest ending to this story I could see. Because, honestly, we all know the elves most likely would not believe that he could do that, or accept that Anilis would choose to reside in an Errant. So, it would turn into the remaining elves destroying, and I do believe that enough elves could easily overwhelm Ian, the permanently cured Half-Elves, just when they could have truly come into play as their own race, with their own future and destiny.

Anyways, random rambling, but thanks to Sorceror and DarkLight140 for seeing something I probably wouldn't have thought about, and provoking my random musings on the subject.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:33 pm 
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Which might help in explaining why it was easy enough to tell 2/3rds of them to go home..


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:40 pm 
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Let’s put it these terms, every few hours a half elf (or elf for that matter) body slowly resets all the various features back to its original factory installed default presets. Now, normal magical powered healing would just be changing features to something else... which ends up being a pointless waste of time since those changes will just be reset back to default. The thing Ian did was to instead change what the actual default presets were so it doesn't matter if it resets or not.

Now this only applies to actual internal changes to how the elf/half elf’s body is made or works... its genetic structure and the like.

Outside stuff like cuts, broken bones, bruises, or viruses are a completely different matter since those don’t really alter the body’s inherent make up in any way, normal healing affects those just fine.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:14 am 
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So poe has basically ruled out any "resetting" her body might do back to her corrupted genome: there are going to be some half elves who want a word with Ian.

By the by, what do the bookies say about the Elves, the Church, or anyone else who is not so nice hearing about Ian's heal o' rama out in the desert? Or are the bookies even tendering that thought, since it is a bit of a long shot.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:02 am 
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Michael Poe wrote:
Let’s put it these terms, every few hours a half elf (or elf for that matter) body slowly resets all the various features back to its original factory installed default presets. Now, normal magical powered healing would just be changing features to something else... which ends up being a pointless waste of time since those changes will just be reset back to default. The thing Ian did was to instead change what the actual default presets were so it doesn't matter if it resets or not.

Now this only applies to actual internal changes to how the elf/half elf’s body is made or works... its genetic structure and the like.

Outside stuff like cuts, broken bones, bruises, or viruses are a completely different matter since those don’t really alter the body’s inherent make up in any way, normal healing affects those just fine.


Hail Poe.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:01 am 
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Shengokai wrote:
So poe has basically ruled out any "resetting" her body might do back to her corrupted genome: there are going to be some half elves who want a word with Ian.

By the by, what do the bookies say about the Elves, the Church, or anyone else who is not so nice hearing about Ian's heal o' rama out in the desert? Or are the bookies even tendering that thought, since it is a bit of a long shot.


It's not an issue yet. It's not on their RADAR at the moment. The Bookies are only interested where they have enough information to set odds. Yes, they are looking at it. It's not a long-shot so much as a developing one and most of it is background for setting other bets.

What they told me they won't set odds for are the wild speculations regarding Exitalis and Luminosita. There is sufficient documentation that;

1 Exitals is MIA but not dead. It was some other God that got killed.
2 Exitalis is definitely not Luminosita. Luminosita is definitely a magic construct with no divine content.

It is one thing to set joker (as in, wildcard) odds on developing plot long-shots but quite another to set odds for stuff that can be found in the wiki. The Bookies have their pride, after all. It would be like snatching candy from babes, turning loan-shark, or cutting off Labrat's dangley bits when he tries to hit you with them. :wink:

Speaking of wiki, anyone else trying to find a wiki home for Poe's recent revelations?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:55 am 
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Thank god. Now we can finally move past this...


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