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 Post subject: "If you're out there murdering people, then on some level you want to be christian."
PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:37 pm 
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wtf?

How about this:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp10192006.shtml


/edit
I just noticed how ironic this is, given my username...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Sounds oddly familiar...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:11 am 
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Boston Legal episode.

This meek little momma's boy at the age of 50 keeps killing people, and keeps getting reluctantly (and successfully) defended by the Lawyers of the show's feature law firm. The elderly secretary then tries to convert him.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:05 am 
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Dunno, as a christian myself the statement appears nonsensical. I, for one, have never taken the life of another human being except when I was ordered to by the state, and even then it was in defence of another person.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:48 am 
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In large part due to the fact that I am a Christian, I DON'T murder people. The quote makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

Now, if the quote was "if you're going around murdering people, then islam is probably right up your alley", I wouldn't have an issue with it. :-P

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:58 am 
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I believe her argument was something along the lines of he was killing people so that he could be saved?

Something like that. No, it didn't make much sense in the show, either. It was one of those pseudo-logical statements that appears reasonable only because it's said as though it's obvious.

Didn't stop Poe and me from laughing all the way through the first season. Now to buy the second, since I don't know anyone to borrow it from.

^-^'

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:16 pm 
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I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:22 pm 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
I believe her argument was something along the lines of he was killing people so that he could be saved?

^-^'



No, the scene went like this, Snarky Old lady played by Betty White asks him what relegion he is, strange little old gay man replies that he's jewish, Old lady corrects him with no, that can't be right, everyone knows there are no jewish serial killers, all the big names were christian, therefore if he's out there murdering people it means that, in his heart, he secretly wants to convert.

Basicly the joke was that the character was using absolutly insane circular logic to try and convert someone to christianity..


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:44 pm 
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Skjie wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.


Yeah, that's basically what came to my mind. There's no justification for violence quite like having the Divine Will on your side!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Yeah, but one divine will is as good as any other.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Forums stay friendlier without knee-jerk anti-religious bigotry, whether against Islam, Christianity, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster. Kudos to the commenters who managed to avoid it.

The worship of Mammon and the Tribe continues to cause the most misery in the world.

One of these days I have to try an episode of <i>Boston Legal</I>. I think I overdosed on narcissistic lawyers back when Ally MacBeal was on. It didn't take too many episodes.

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Last edited by Boss Out of Town on Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:50 pm 
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Gwyon wrote:
Skjie wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.


Yeah, that's basically what came to my mind. There's no justification for violence quite like having the Divine Will on your side!

Really?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:21 pm 
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BloodHenge wrote:
Gwyon wrote:
Skjie wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.


Yeah, that's basically what came to my mind. There's no justification for violence quite like having the Divine Will on your side!

Really?

<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_mysticism">Really.</A>

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Gwyon wrote:
Skjie wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.

Yeah, that's basically what came to my mind. There's no justification for violence quite like having the Divine Will on your side!


You are both confusing the religious espousal of violence with the hijacking of religion for selfish violent and/or political purposes.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:24 pm 
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Look, people have been using God as an excuse for violence for most of our history, regardless of the religion. I can think of major examples for pretty much every major religion and/or culture in the world today, and throughout history. The only exceptions are specifically non-violent sects of different religions, but even in those cases the major parent religions still have distinct stains. Even cases where there is no specific God, but there is something like ancestor or spirit worship, that's been used as an excuse for violence.

People just plain like using violence to perpetuate their point of view. If no one believed in God, there'd eventually be some other excuse.

^-^'

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:35 pm 
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Gah.

Organized religion makes me want to puke most of the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:11 pm 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
Look, people have been using God as an excuse for violence for most of our history, regardless of the religion. I can think of major examples for pretty much every major religion and/or culture in the world today, and throughout history. The only exceptions are specifically non-violent sects of different religions, but even in those cases the major parent religions still have distinct stains. Even cases where there is no specific God, but there is something like ancestor or spirit worship, that's been used as an excuse for violence.

People just plain like using violence to perpetuate their point of view. If no one believed in God, there'd eventually be some other excuse.
^-^'

As there always was, and still is. Professional historians are just as bad about this as us amateurs. You can find otherwise reasonable scholars trying to blame most of human violence on the drive for wealth, money, power, patriarchy, class dominance, race dominance, religious dominance, and every other simplification you can think of.

My take on it, just from counting wars at various places and times and noting who started them, is that the primary cause of war is egotism and love of family. Which is to say, most political entities, historically, were ruled by monarchs or monarch wannabees. They started wars to glorify themselves and their families, to make themselves more important and to leave something nice for their (usually ungrateful) children.

Religion is way overrated as a cause of war, although it is always available as an excuse for some sultan or king's ego trip. The Crusades, in particular, should rate barely a footnote in the annals of organized violence and the Islamic jihad (of which the Crusades were an imitation) was, with some exceptions, spent as anything but a political excuse a thousand years ago.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:51 pm 
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BloodHenge wrote:
Gwyon wrote:
Skjie wrote:
I'm not a Christian, but the quote <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades">makes perfect</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition">sense to me</a>.

Yeah, that's basically what came to my mind. There's no justification for violence quite like having the Divine Will on your side!

Really?

Keeping score on these matters is depressing or fun, depending on your mood.

If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Marxist, psychopath.
Ghengiz Khan -- Animist, deist, horse nomad, frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack.
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Marxist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Christians, some cultural Christians only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 8:36 pm 
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Boss Out of Town wrote:
If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Marxist, psychopath.
Ghengiz Khan -- Animist, deist, horse nomad, frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack.
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Marxist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Christians, some cultural Christians only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.


Note that atheist marxists have by far the largest body count, which is striking given their relative recency.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:26 pm 
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Without trying to start a religious flame war on the forum, I'm going to point out some history here:

The Crusades were in response to 300 years of invasion by muslims from the Middle East. Spain's Reconquista was their being liberated from muslim rule. The Crusades also were primarily NOT religiously motivated, though quite a few Christians were goaded into going. You have to remember that this is when the Catholic church kept the bible to itself to retain power, rather than letting the people read it and find out what it said for themselves. Anyway, most of the people who went on the Crusades were recruited by non-religious authorities (kings, nobles, merchants, etc.) and went along for profit (loot, trade, new land, etc.) or to defend the homeland. Not to mention that since murder and pillage violate basic tenates of Christianity and always have, I'd say Christianity isn't at fault for the massacre in Jerusalem, it's a bunch of mass-murdering assholes responsible. Saying the Crusades were Christians doing what Christians do would be like saying the Wermacht of Nazi Germany were Christians performing a new Crusade- their belt buckles said Gott mitt Uns, so they HAD to be Christian, right?

Whereas islam's entire history consists almost exclusively of murder, rape, pillage and conquering other civilizations, then taking credit for the inventions they stole from dead people. And their religion not only supports this, but encourages it. Nice.

Of course, considering that athiest fascists, and especially communists, are responsible for 170,000,000+ civilian deaths in the last century alone, I don't think religion is the problem. The problem is mass-murdering assholes rising to power and a bunch of assholes going along with them. Anyone who fits that category, regardless of their religious beliefs/lack thereof or claim of religious beliefs/lack thereof, needs to be shot before he starts genocide.

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