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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:13 pm 
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Deadly Sin No.8 wrote:
Boss Out of Town wrote:
If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Marxist, psychopath.
Ghengiz Khan -- Animist, deist, horse nomad, frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack.
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Marxist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Christians, some cultural Christians only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.

Note that atheist marxists have by far the largest body count, which is striking given their relative recency.

See, that's the problem with this kind of discussion. People keep trying to compare their scores!

The "advantage" the Marxists have is the Industrial Revolution. Two sciences, those of administrative, and public health, allow populations to grow to unheard of densities and also allow governments to control, provide for, or kill people in unheard of numbers.

Winston Churchill understood this: "if we fail . . . all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science." <i>Any</i> oppressive society can rot away and collapse, per the Byronic poem we all know by heart by now, but a totalitarian regime using Western rationalism, organization and technology could grind humanity into the dust for centuries beyond the fantasies of any god or evil overlord.

All that aside, ancient armies were perfectly capable of exterminating humans by the million just using hand weapons. Tamerlane's boys could sack a city over a weekend and leave a couple of hundred thousand skulls stacked up in piles outside the walls to show the world how tough they were.

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 Post subject: I was planning on avoiding this thread like the plague
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Insane_Megalomaniac wrote:
Spain's Reconquista was their being liberated...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! That's so cute. Stupid and a bad interpretation of history, but cute.

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Whereas islam's entire history consists almost exclusively of murder, rape, pillage and conquering other civilizations, then taking credit for the inventions they stole from dead people. And their religion not only supports this, but encourages it. Nice.

It's strange, but this could also be said for christianity.

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Saying the Crusades were Christians doing what Christians do would be like saying the Wermacht of Nazi Germany were Christians performing a new Crusade- their belt buckles said Gott mitt Uns, so they HAD to be Christian, right?

Game over, HAND.


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 Post subject: Re: I was planning on avoiding this thread like the plague
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:40 pm 
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Vass wrote:
Insane_Megalomaniac wrote:
Spain's Reconquista was their being liberated...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! That's so cute. Stupid and a bad interpretation of history, but cute.

Huh? Waitaminute, that's the only sentence in the paragraph that was actually accurate, if a tad anachronistic. Speaking from a mainstream historical point of view, of course. These days, every political faction seems to be creating their own revisionist history.

Vass wrote:
Insane_Megalomaniac wrote:
Whereas islam's entire history consists almost exclusively of murder, rape, pillage and conquering other civilizations, then taking credit for the inventions they stole from dead people. And their religion not only supports this, but encourages it. Nice.

It's strange, but this could also be said for christianity.

You could, but why would you? The whole denunciation is to over-the-top to apply to anything in the real world.

Sigh. I have a friend of several decades with whom I used to have regular discussions on politics and religion. He was a bit more conservative than I was, but still rational. Then he started reading and getting into this Islamophobic crap on the Internet and on talk radio. Now, not only does he spew hate-filled religious slurs, but, he cannot discuss politics without flying into a rage.

While I sympathize with InMegs defence of Christianity, no major religion or philosophy fits the description of his tirade. You substitute "Christian" for "Moslem" and you get Vass's slur. You substitute "Jew" for "Moslem" and you get <i>The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.</i>

I had an uncle who would have used "English" in that speech. He was what we used to call a "professional Irishman," even though he spent his entire life in Nebraska and never travelled.

Winona LaDuke, an Amerindian activist from around my home town, would make all European-Americans the subject of the slur. She's one of those types who favors blowing up Mt Rushmore and giving all of western South Dakota back to the 19th Century natives. Notwithstanding that the Lakota only took the Black Hills from the Crow in the 18th Century. In the 17th Century, the Lakota had no horses and were raising corn and hunting white-tailed deer in Wisconsin.

Everyone needs an enemy these days.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:46 pm 
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Boss Out of Town wrote:
If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Stalinist, psychopath, some evidence to support that he may have been a Catholic in secret
Genghis Khan -- Animist, deist, Mongolian , frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack, christian and reportedly quested after the Lance of Longinus
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Maoist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Catholics, some cultural Catholics only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:22 am 
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onion wrote:
Boss Out of Town wrote:
If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Stalinist, psychopath, some evidence to support that he may have been a Catholic in secret
Genghis Khan -- Animist, deist, Mongolian , frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack, christian and reportedly quested after the Lance of Longinus
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Maoist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Catholics, some cultural Catholics only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.


So Communism and Catholicism go hand in hand?

This is a great discovery.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:31 am 
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onion wrote:

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Stalinist, psychopath, some evidence to support that he may have been a Catholic in secret


"How many divisions does the pope have?"

Besides, Brother Steel was a Georgian. So even if he was anything other than marxist true-believer... and he was a marxist true-believer. You didn't become a Bolshevik when he did, where he did, out of oppurtunistic cynicism.

onion wrote:
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack, christian and reportedly quested after the Lance of Longinus


Occult-obsessed pagan. Literally.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but Christianity is well documented as starting out as a apocalyptic pacifist-cult, dismissed by its contemporaries as a religion of women and slaves. People are bastards, and 2,000 years is a long time, so you can cherry-pick factoids to say pretty much anything you want, there's still that innate character coloring everything. Christianity doesn't even make for good theocracies; it's core scriptures reflect it's starting conditions to much; they're the comet-watchers of the messianic religions. They just don't last; you can't run a society out of the New Testament, it's too goddamn snide.

You want to see what people can do once they have hold of a religion for a while? Take a look at what happenned with Tibet. Time's a bitch, but the Nazarines have been a decided net-positive for their world.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:39 am 
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I don't quite think I know what you think I'm implying butrather than arguing I was mostly just correcting what were pretty much glaring over sights.

Oh god. I'm posting in here again amn't I?

No more drugs for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:56 am 
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Yorik wrote:
onion wrote:
Boss Out of Town wrote:
If you must compare the tallies among political purveyors of slaughter, here's a quck list, in no particular order.

Josef Stalin -- Atheist, Stalinist, psychopath, some evidence to support that he may have been a Catholic in secret
Genghis Khan -- Animist, deist, Mongolian , frightenly brilliant intellectual.
Adolf Hitler -- Superstious psuedo-intellectual, nationalist, skilled political hack, christian and reportedly quested after the Lance of Longinus
Mao Tse Tung -- Atheist Maoist do-gooder, man of the people.
Tamerlane -- Fanatical Moslem, paranoid sociopathic mercenary thug.
Spanish Conquistadores -- Bloody-handed mercenary entrepreneur capitalists, some devout Catholics, some cultural Catholics only.
Attila the Hun -- Standard polytheistic pagan, an ascetic battling a debauched cuture and time, just plain mean.

So Communism and Catholicism go hand in hand?

This is a great discovery.

Mainly, I think Onion is trying to add detail. Good for him.

The principles of Marxism, as oppossed to the more doctrinaire varieties of state communism, is readily adapted to other systems of belief. I recall that at least one of the modern Archbishops of Canterbury was a notoriously adamant Communist.

If Stalin was a closet Catholic, he certainly kept his conversion and beliefs well hidden. Sounds like a particularly juicy conspiracy theory.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:36 am 
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I think you'll find the romans started it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:32 am 
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This has gone past silly arguing. I had hoped it'd get better, but no.

People are bastards, religion is a common excuse, end of story.

Stop acting like any one people is better or worse than any other. It simply isn't a realistic point of view. We're <b>all</b> vile opportunists who like to pretend we have a higher power on our side, be it god or reason or even just the consent of the people.

Thread locked because I don't see it adding harmony to the world or, more to the point, to this board. I wish Poe had never decided to use that quote.

-_-'

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