ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:35 am 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
What part of "The comic in no way would stop being offered for free" aren't people reading?

This subscription service would be a SUPPLEMENT. Look at Sluggy, then imagine it being done without denying the newsposts to your average joe non-subscription reader. Something more like that, not "You can't read Errant Story unless you pay us first."

I'd be nicer about this, but I've said it a dozen times in this thread alone, and I'm really tired of being nice.

^-^'


Just for the record, I have to say I was arguing with Logic (odd sentence). I wasn't assuming YOU were actually going to do that. Of course, I'm not even sure you were directing that at me... but still, for the record.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:35 pm 
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Imp-Chan, You mentioned paypal fees. I give you guys 2-4 bucks every two weeks, have been for about three months now. Wish I could do more, I remember when EN was still tiny and fledgling and I want to give something back to Poe. Now I realize it isn't much, but it's all I can afford, myself being a fledgeling webcomic artist I understand how tedious it can be. Now how much does paypal charge per transaction on that?

The point being: Would it be better to compile this money into one lump sum? I'd rather y`all got more of the money I sent.

Also, perhaps we could raise some funds. You know that guy with the question marks on his suit that sells the book about gov't grants and shit? GET IT! I bet you could get all sorts of grants you don't have to pay back.

Also, if the tax folk hammer your ass, I haven't paid taxes in three years (on paper I did, just I got all my money back) and I'm a write-off ninja. Save your reciepts, when you and poe go out to dinner, discuss the comic for five minutes and it's legally a business meeting expense you can write off.

Sorry to be longwinded >_<

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:03 pm 
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I have tax books that are so thorough and pretty and organized an IRS agent would cream his pants just looking at them. We also have a lot of write-offs, because we work out of our home, and eat sleep and breathe this company. Hell, we don't even drive much unless we're going out to a business meeting or running errands for the company. I don't think I've gotten into our car since we bought it without doing something business-related on the trip, even if it's just reviewing plots on the way to and from wherever we're going.

Paypal does charge a per-transaction fee, so it does make us more money if someone donates in a lump sum. That's why we have a lump-sum donation gift (well, that and the fact that our donation-monitoring system has no way of tracking cumulative donation amounts yet). However, a dollar or two every so often adds up to a heck of a lot over time, and just the fact of doing it at all makes you a hero as far as I'm concerned.

^-^'

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:40 pm 
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Darlos wrote:
Despite your "logic," I'm afraid I'm going to have to speak for the internet and say that nobody would pay a subscription for a webcomic. Okay, I'm sure you could find SOMEbody, but they don't count. Its just not the way the internet works. Heck, Penny Arcade could start asking for a subscription (I know they don't need one, bear with me), and despite its popularity I'm sure most people would just get angry and learn to live without it. A move like that with this webcomic would surely kill it dead, since it isn't exactly mega-popular to begin with. Webcomics are, by nature, free to just look at. Anything different would be an unwanted abhorance.

Though I'm not denying the need for income. And therein lies the rub...


Not, it’s not how the internet works in YOUR mind which in general just means you have a very limited world view (or ability to understand how other people think/act). Granted that as I see it just makes you normal/average so don’t take it as an insult. Personally I have no trouble with paying for a subscription, heck I’ve donated a decent amount to various webcomics as is (another donation to ES will be sent soon, yay for new better-than-expected-paying job).

So far there is graphicsmash, wirepop, moderntales and probably a few others that are subscription based service (granted the revenue as I hear it is abysmal). A few other comics have subscription service (userfriendly I think) and a few others have monthly decently sized donations (dmfa comes to mind). There is also one comic whose name I can’t remember but which had a free chapter with the rest requiring a micropayment type thing. Having a subscription only webcomic simply makes it like every other piece of entertainment out there, a lot of which functions perfectly well without massive promotions or giant companies behind them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:08 am 
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I goofed up and don't have any money atm, but I'm posting in other forums. Hope it's ok.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Quote:
you have a very limited world view (or ability to understand how other people think/act)


Nice job. Apparently you're omniscient and were able to gather evidence to support this beyond one paltry message board post.

Quote:
Granted that as I see it just makes you normal/average so don’t take it as an insult.


Yeah, right.

Quote:
Personally I have no trouble with paying for a subscription


You don't count.

Quote:
So far there is graphicsmash, wirepop, moderntales and probably a few others that are subscription based service


Too bad that I've never heard of those.

Quote:
granted the revenue as I hear it is abysmal


Case in point.

Quote:
Having a subscription only webcomic simply makes it like every other piece of entertainment out there


Wrong. See, we live in a capitalist society. When people spend money, they want something tangible in return. If its just words and pictures, it'd better damn well be printed on pages that form a book or magazine that you can hold. Otherwise, nobody wants to pay for a piece of entertainment unless it involves moving pictures and sound.

Go ahead and conveniently disregard that by saying I have a limited perspective again. But I'd say I'm right on the money.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:44 pm 
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Darlos wrote:
You don't count.

Even outliers are statistically relevant.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:51 am 
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Darlos wrote:
Wrong. See, we live in a capitalist society. When people spend money, they want something tangible in return. If its just words and pictures, it'd better damn well be printed on pages that form a book or magazine that you can hold. Otherwise, nobody wants to pay for a piece of entertainment unless it involves moving pictures and sound.

:-? Okay, then. I'll pass the word to all the art galleries, museums, theaters, universities, architectural societies, nature preserves, and zoos. They might as well give it up and start turning out paperbacks and videos.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:45 am 
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Quote:
Even outliers are statistically relevant.

Not when you're talking about whether or not most people would do something. One person isn't a demographic, so thats hardly proving a point.

Quote:
:-? Okay, then. I'll pass the word to all the art galleries, museums, theaters, universities, architectural societies, nature preserves, and zoos. They might as well give it up and start turning out paperbacks and videos.


First of all, I wasn't referring to all those things. Zoos and nature preserves are way off base. But regardless, in all those cases you're paying money to stand in front of the real thing, not a picture of it. Thats tangible value, even if you're not literally holding or touching those things. You're still in the physical presence of them, and thats what you're paying for.

Well, actually, what you're REALLY paying for is the privelage to take up the space in the museum/zoo/whatever necessary to SEE those things, as only so many people can stand in front of them before they become invisible to the people in back. In the case of a picture of something, that can be duplicated or placed on the internet in such a manner that an infinite amount of people can see them.

Now, what you're really really REALLY paying for is the fact that these people want money for you to see whatever it is they own, often for the upkeep of those things and the places that house them. And its their right to do that, cuz its their stuff.

Just as it'd be a webcomic owner's right to charge admission to see their website. I'm not denying that. All I'm questioning is whether or not thats a smart thing to do, because Errant Story isn't exactly a wildly popular webcomic. So if you asked a random internet goer who reads webcomics (who, we can probably assume, doesn't pay for any of them) if they'd like to pay to read a webcomic they've never heard of, they'd probably say no.

Now, if Errant Story got wildy popular and everyone wanted a piece of it, OR if webcomics charging for admission was a more common thing, it might fly. But neither of those things are true. So I fear that such a move would just kill a comic like this, despite any loyal fanbase.

And don't get me wrong: I read and enjoy this comic too. I don't want to see it fail. I'm not the enemy here. I just urge caution when it comes to demanding money out of people on the internet.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:21 am 
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Darlos, it has never, EVER been proposed that Errant Story become a subscription-only comic. Go back and re-read this discussion, paying less attention to your point and more attention to the topic.

Now, since I have already said that IN THIS THREAD a number of times, and you didn't listen to it the first time, I can only guess that you're like many internet goers who prefer to dwell in their knee-jerk assumptions instead of the reality of what's going on. You've made a clear but completely irrelevant point as a result, and degraded this thread to an argument which has NOTHING TO DO with what's going on or what this thread is here for.

Do not, ever, let me catch you or anyone else failing to read the whole story again. This board is about discussion and community, not monologue, and an important factor of discussion is ACTIVELY LISTENING to the conversation around you instead of just talking over it. If I have to demonstrate to you what it feels like to be ignored by deleting your posts, locking threads, or even banning you, I will. It's an important life lesson which it is imperative that you learn, and just as important it's my board and I don't like having to bloody repeat myself.

>.<'

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:29 pm 
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/me love imp-chan. /me blows hugs loves and kisses.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:31 pm 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
Darlos, it has never, EVER been proposed that Errant Story become a subscription-only comic. Go back and re-read this discussion, paying less attention to your point and more attention to the topic.

Now, since I have already said that IN THIS THREAD a number of times, and you didn't listen to it the first time, I can only guess that you're like many internet goers who prefer to dwell in their knee-jerk assumptions instead of the reality of what's going on. You've made a clear but completely irrelevant point as a result, and degraded this thread to an argument which has NOTHING TO DO with what's going on or what this thread is here for.

Do not, ever, let me catch you or anyone else failing to read the whole story again. This board is about discussion and community, not monologue, and an important factor of discussion is ACTIVELY LISTENING to the conversation around you instead of just talking over it. If I have to demonstrate to you what it feels like to be ignored by deleting your posts, locking threads, or even banning you, I will. It's an important life lesson which it is imperative that you learn, and just as important it's my board and I don't like having to bloody repeat myself.

>.<'


I did read the whole topic. And I was initially replying to Logic's post here:

Quote:
Membership service is actually cheaper than buying comics at a store.

Most Marvel/DC comics average an issue every month/month and a half (besides that 52 bullshit, which pops one out every week) at 24 pages a book(average.) Last Wednesday when I geeked it up my comics cost $6.50 each, with the special Captain America's death issue coming in over $25.

The average subscription service for online comics (from the ones I subscribe to) is one to three dollars. Poe averages 12 comics a month and if they land it in the 2 dollar a month range you'll be saving $2.50 per comic "book."

Impy said something about a $10 a year deal, so that'd be even better.

Yes, Poe isn't as fast as the mainstream comics, but he doesn't have a team of artists helping him out. He has to draw it, ink it and shade it all by himself which is usually handled by 3 dudes for every comic. That's 8 pages per guy per month, while Poe does 12.

I think it's one hell of a deal.

(I might have rambled a bit there, sorry if I'm a little hard to follow.)


I was arguing with HIM, not YOU, and I had no assumption that you were actually thinking of doing that. I even stated this in my second post:

Quote:
Just for the record, I have to say I was arguing with Logic (odd sentence). I wasn't assuming YOU were actually going to do that. Of course, I'm not even sure you were directing that at me... but still, for the record.


I'm not sure where I turned into the badguy. I didn't degrade the thread. I simply happened to join in when Logic posted that and felt I should contest it. Then OTHER people started countering me... AFTER you stated in a post, which my second post there was a reply to and in agreement with, that you had no intention of doing that. I had no plans to take my argument any further. Then other people starting arguing with me even though I was really actually defending you, then I argued with them out of defense, and now here you come in talking to me like I'm the villain and you're being hailed for it. WTF?!!! This is the most ass-backwards argument I've ever been involved in.

You say an important factor is actually listening to the conversation. Honestly, it feels like I'm the only one who really has.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:23 am 
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You're still wrong. Many people make a good deal of money selling--as you would phrase it--"Non-existent goods."

Direct2drive.com is now selling comics, something according to your reasoning nobody would pay for. These are adobe files man, not hardcover graphic novels. Sure, they're on your computer, but I can do the same with ES by right clicking the images and Saving.

I'm sure you'll fire back with some more evidence why I'm such a dumbass for thinking people would pay for a good product people are already willing to pay for, and I don't wanna aggravate Impy anymore than I (or you) already have, so this'll be my last post in the thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:47 am 
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Not to mention video games like World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains, where you buy a CD and then subscribe to the server. Stop paying the subscription, and that CD becomes a $50 coaster. Personally, I'd rather just own the game, but there are apparently quite a few people who disagree with me.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:32 pm 
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Nope. I'm done with this. Not even gonna bother reading the replies. I'm gonna try to "respect" this topic without succumbing to the urge to get in some kind of last word.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:58 pm 
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How about if I just lock it?

Incidentally, if you DO want to discuss the merits of subscription-ONLY comics and whether you feel it's a viable system, there is a debate board where I'm sure that sort of thing would be appropriate. It's just not relevant to Errant Story, and discussing it in relation to Errant Story may give those who skim these boards the very wrong idea.

^-^'

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