ZOMBIE FORUMS

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:01 pm 
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But that means that the size of the order would be limited by the number of weapons available. Isn't the order expanding under Anita? They dropped the extra test for outside candidates because there are too many of them...

Ofcourse they could be only issued with the real deal upon exiting the village from generic pool of available weapons, but there is no proof of that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
as a parallel, we in the real world don't still know how to make quality bronze swords of the type used in the ancient world, or any of a zillion other quality crafts of that time. Why would the Ensigerum still know how to make (or more to the point still have the raw materials to make) the durus flamma weapons thousands of years after being ejected from the society which provided them in the first place?

The reasons were different. Bonze Age weapons, were obsoleted by better technology, like Damascus steel. We'd have kept those technologies had we a need for them. We've only recently relearned how to make Damascus steel but we don't make it the same way. In the process, we also relearned its weaknesses and have actually improved it. However, there is a chrome vandium nickle steel alloy that is superior, as well as some experiments using titanium alloys as well.

Bronze Age weapons are still obsolete, compared to steel. However, quality bronze components are heavily used in aerospace (bearings and self lubricating parts that don't out-gas in a vacuum). If we have to make a bronze sword, there is no doubt that we, today, could make a superior one. Bronze and Beryllium copper alloys are very good and we can even make forgings. Bronze and Beryllium alloys can be highly carcinogenic, however, and is Anthropologically speculated as being one of the reasons for much shorter life expectancies during the Bronze Age.

That said, because the Durus Flamma technology wasn't eclipsed by a superior technology, it would likely have been preserved. The existance of the Spatha, and Poe's comments on it, is probative of the Ensigerum's one time ability to make Durus Flamma weapons and even design/modify new ones using existing Durus Flamma technology. The Order would have preserved the technology even in the absence of the raw materials.

Imp-Chan wrote:
Even if they made a concerted effort to keep the knowledge intact, the fact is they've been living almost entirely in secret for about two millenia. No trade, no exploration, almost no interaction at all. You think they're going to ask the Veracian church for the materials? Without the materials (which for all we know were specialized and unable to be obtained by anyone even if they hadn't been in hiding), how long do you think they could keep teaching the methods?


However, there are various clues, from the time Sarine went before the Elvin Council, that Ensigerum were not completely incommunicado with some Elves. At least, since the barrier went down and maybe before then (The barrier was supposed to keep everyone else out and not the elves in). It is quite possible that that is a source of raw materials.

Imp-Chan wrote:
The odds are just too good that no one has made a NEW durus flamma weapon in a very, very long time.

^-^'


I don't think that making a Durus Flamma is a forgotten technology among the Ensigerum. However, it does appear to be a stagnant technology overall. After all, there has been nothing new since the introduction of the Spatha.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:19 am 
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magic elf crystal bullets.

FTW.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:44 am 
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One other thought about the dolon which I haven't seen elsewhere: while it is probably an impractical (or at least less practical) weapon when used against enemies moving at the same speed, having two unstoppable blades at opposing ends of a pole is probably a good way to increase your total effectiveness. After all, a time-monk's time is still at a premium; milliseconds spent swinging a sword from one side to another are milliseconds not spent opening blood vessels to the crisp morning air.

It is also possible that Anita uses a dolon because she can wield it more effectively than anyone else. We haven't seen any evidence that the Ensigerum all accelerate themselves equally effectively (unless we have); it's quite easy to imagine that it's a skill one grows more powerful at with practice and trial. Anita may, in fact, be substantially faster than anyone else of the Ensigerum, in addition to any other combat advantages she might have; if this is true, then it's to her advantage to use as adaptable a weapon as she can, which might be a dolon.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:58 am 
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Rubber Band Man wrote:
While I'm a bit hesitent to correct you, didn't the Time-Ninjas only invenent the "Spatha" subtype after getting booted by the elves? Judging from the Wiki-drawing, and Chris' Training weapon, it seems the 'blade' is much larger then the spear counter part, meaning that they just didn't hack off a few feet off of a spear-version.

...And if she's the best fighter, and the leader, it means she's been working up the ranks. If she became a full monk, I doubt she couldn't swap weapons if she wanted to.


If I remember correctly Sarines housband had such a weapon so it is not a newly invented design.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:17 am 
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pillaroforder wrote:
If I remember correctly Sarines housband had such a weapon so it is not a newly invented design.


He had a Lancea, Sathas were invented after the Enisgerum were ejected by the elves. From the wiki:

Poe wrote:
Lastly, the Spatha came about some time after the Ensigerum was ejected by the elves. It creation was the result of requests for a more compact weapon. Lacking much in imagination, they basically just shrunk the lancea's basic design down to smaller short sword size. It is the second most common style of weapon used by the monks after the Lancea.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:27 am 
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Zherical wrote:
magic elf crystal bullets.


Not much point in that right now, seeing as how regular bullets already tear up all the armor available.

As an aside, I'm rather surprised that Elves don't have the equivalent of kevlar lying around. Maybe Tsuiraku's invented it. You know it'd be quite funny if it turns out that Tsuiraku has surpassed the Elves in terms of technology; though not surprising, seeing as how Tsuiraku is basically straight continuation of the pinnacle of Human/Elven/Half-elven civilization from around 2,000 years ago, minus the Dark Ages that the rest of the world suffered meanwhile. (Though, there is the still-unanswered question of what happened to all the Elves and Half-elves what must have been on Tsuiraku when they engaged their cloaking field).

As a further aside, you know what'd be a real cool project for the wiki? A timeline page showing known history in a roughly chronological order. I'm not volunteering, mind you...

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:17 am 
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Eccles wrote:
pillaroforder wrote:
If I remember correctly Sarines housband had such a weapon so it is not a newly invented design.


He had a Lancea, Sathas were invented after the Enisgerum were ejected by the elves. From the wiki:

Poe wrote:
Lastly, the Spatha came about some time after the Ensigerum was ejected by the elves. It creation was the result of requests for a more compact weapon. Lacking much in imagination, they basically just shrunk the lancea's basic design down to smaller short sword size. It is the second most common style of weapon used by the monks after the Lancea.


Then when was this? http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2003-06-27 (and several strips that follow this one) That looks like Spatha vs. Lancea to me.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 4:16 am 
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pillaroforder wrote:
Eccles wrote:
pillaroforder wrote:
If I remember correctly Sarines housband had such a weapon so it is not a newly invented design.


He had a Lancea, Sathas were invented after the Enisgerum were ejected by the elves. From the wiki:

Poe wrote:
Lastly, the Spatha came about some time after the Ensigerum was ejected by the elves. It creation was the result of requests for a more compact weapon. Lacking much in imagination, they basically just shrunk the lancea's basic design down to smaller short sword size. It is the second most common style of weapon used by the monks after the Lancea.


Then when was this? http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2003-06-27 (and several strips that follow this one) That looks like Spatha vs. Lancea to me.


Funny that you said that because it does seem like a Lancea vs. "elf's (magic crystal) sword" to me... And if you ask why the hell a human would have an "elf's (magic crystal) sword" when Poe said that elves keeped them for themself, I gonna bet on the fact that the human with the "elf's (magic crystal) sword" is Sarine lover and the fact that sarine was K.O. are enought to explain how he end up fighting with this "elf's (magic crystal) sword".

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:28 am 
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Forrest wrote:
As a further aside, you know what'd be a real cool project for the wiki? A timeline page showing known history in a roughly chronological order. I'm not volunteering, mind you...


Already considering that. However, EasyTimeline, using Ploticus, isn't so easy to implement.

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:24 am 
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Zherical wrote:
That's almost like finding a way for a knitting needle to be used as the projectile of a firearm, or something.


Already done, the russian military has an underwater assault rifle that practically shoots knitting needles.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as69-e.htm

;D

On a second note, from Sara's reaction, I think they thought the weapons they had were the awesomecakes... probebly because they don't know thier history aside from "fuck, they are elven!"

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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:50 pm 
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pillaroforder wrote:
Then when was this? http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2003-06-27 (and several strips that follow this one) That looks like Spatha vs. Lancea to me.

No that is a Hapes vs. a Lancea
http://www.errantstory.com/wiki/index.php/Durus_Flamma the durus flamma weapons are pictured at the top
http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2003-07-04 now notice that the blade is shaped more like a Hapes and the handle is of Hapes length. The Hapes had a longer reach and a killing zone farther out than a Spatha. A Spatha would have an advantage over a Lancea if the wielder could get inside the Lancea's minimum range, an advantage of course only if the two fighters are of equal skill.


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