ZOMBIE FORUMS

hi hi

I figured it was because, with the exception of chris, everyone has been trying to talk at her rather then with her. Subtle difference I suppose.

More common definition: not retorting because it isn't worth the effort and only drags you down to the other person's level.

I tend to see Sara's reaction here as, in part, Poe's tweaking the people who thought she and Meji would bond just because they are the same gender and height. Culturally, they are from different worlds.

It is really hard to not answer if you have ADHD. I wish I could do that more.

While it is often a good thing to walk away it is true however that simply leaving a conversation most often leaves the other person with the social high ground. Also, the character of people who would do that is not as geared towards social dominance as the ones who stay in it are (although there are exceptions of course, like Meji and those popular lone wolfs).

So yeah, it's dignified, but not always wise. Also, I don't think Meji is hostile here, she's making an effort and being open at least if neutral about it.

I'm pretty sure that Sara's concern is pretty far away from Social Highground.

She's spent quite a large chunk of her life where her Social Status was in a large part assigned to her by seniority, rather than her interactions with people.

What I'm wondering is what the next catalyst to make Sara come out of her shell for some solid dialogue will be.

I think this comment is a hint that Meji's grandpappy is inquiring as to her grades.

Edit: Also, I loved how Meji was talking about the cliches and what have you.

If that was the sole reason, then Jon wouldn't get along with Meji very well...

Three times Meji tries to start a conversation, each time with heavier artillery. The reactions are: "Yes", "... Yes" and <stand up and leave>. If this was some random person you met on the street, it would be a reasonable response... But they're drinking tea, in a setting designed to foster conversation.

This looks much more like someone who isn't capable of holding a normal conversation beyond short replies and explanations about very specific things. If it was mere disinterest, she'd just have kept ignoring Meji in stead of running away.

o.O



Hmm, hadn't considered it from that angle. Meji is, naturally, trying to get some reaction from Sara. Sara just isn't cooperating. Meji's face in the fourth panel shows some frustration at the simple answer.

Yeah? My dad thought so too. *cries*

Ha! I know I shouldn't encourage self-referential metahumor but it can be funny...in small doses...and it was funny here.

She is facing a personne who's first move is to critic who she is and who she is with: In that situation you don't discuss or offert them answers, because it mean you would give them possibility to continue. Instead, you just ignore them. Ignoring them seems to me a normal thing to do and what they hate the most, cause it mean that no one is (even intrested in)listenning to them.

Actually, Meji was only aggressive on the fifth panel. The third was somewhat less than polite, but not as brazen as she ussualy is, and the first was pretty well behaved. She got the same response from Sara every time.

Yes, but you are judging Meji's statement by Meji's standards. By anyone else's, particularly after that bizarre exchange with Ellis, it was both peculiar and insulting.

That eye roll in the last panel suggests annoyance and digust, not fear of conversation. Sara probably had a meeting or two with her companions along the lines of: "Remember, whatever bitchy, insulting comment she makes, the local laws don't allow you to decapitate her. In fact, you can't even punch her in the mouth, she's too connected. Just walk away from it if gets bad."

yeah, thought it would go kinda like this.

Meji was raised in a wealthy, influential family in a post-industrial society. She's basically had everything handed to her on a plate, with a sprig of parsley and an after-dinner mint. She's had very few strictures on her day-to-day behavior, other than an injunction to get good grades or she wouldn't get the trust fund.

Sara had it hard from the beginning. Child of single mom in a third-world country, then an orphan, then inducted into a monastery with a strict daily regimen, chores, meditation, work, discipline.

Sara has had the common sense beaten into her. Literally. No one probably ever raised a hand to Meji as a child without having hell to pay for it afterwards. It's hard to see what frame of reference these two would have for relating to each other at all.

I know people like Sara in real life.. I'm almost one of them myself. Haven't had it easy, not me. I don't talk much mostly because I don't feel as though (from past experiences) that what I have to say is listened to.

It's led me to believe that I also have few intellectual peers in my age-social parameter aswell (18-24), as the best most people I meet can discuss is who and when they are fucking someone.

I bet Sara has the same feelings. She's surrounded by thugs, sadists or pompous morons, and doesn't really care for what they have to say. She'd rather just take what orders she's given, carry them out, and return home to a meal and some relaxation, than be forced to deal with her local plebes.

That's why I say she isn't anti-social. I'm not. I have plenty of friends, and while I may not be an orphaned ex-chrono ninja, I can sympathise with her sentiments on Meji's failed attempts at conversation. If Sara is any comic-related reflection of me for you guys, she, like me, is used to being criticised.

Personally, I think Ian is the one who could extract the most out of Sara. They seem... compatable.. to me.

Well, if you're going to use anyone else's standards, Sara's response to Meji's first offer for conversation was quite rude in itself. Answering questions in social settings with nothing more than a "Yes" without bothering to look at the person speaking to you isn't polite. Sure, Sara has no frame of reference for such a situation, but the fact remains that she was the first to be 'offensive' in the situation. She just doesn't know it.

As far as character motivations go, it's better to use their standards. From an outsider's perspective, they're both being rude. Using what we know of the characters, we could imagine Meji wanted some conversation (and if your main source of conversation was Ellis, you'd probably look for others too) and someone to vent about everyone leaving them alone with, while Sara either didn't know how to answer or didn't care to do it. Neither was aiming to offend the other. They just haven't found a common ground.



So, you figure Sara is kind of like you, and you think Sara and Ian are compatible....

Nah, too easy.

I find this notion of people needing to prove that they're worth your time before you'll treat them with basic good manners to be an interestingly prevalent one.

Certainly in business (especially publishing, it turns out), the less someone's pitch or wants is "worth the time," the less effort is put into communicating with them. Thus the form rejection letter, and other similarly demoralizing procedures.

Yet, on an individual face-to-face basis, it seems the most common advice is to ALWAYS make an effort to at least be nonjudgemental and polite, even if you can't be genuinely friendly. The prevailing theory being that since one does not always know the entire circumstances of a person, one never knows if they'll turn out to be worth your time or not, and there's more to be gained by being polite in general than by blowing someone off. Less risk of offending the wrong person, too.

Personally, I'm not sure I really hold with either theory. I sortof feel it's always worth it to be as polite and open as you can, even when someone is doing something which to you is obviously a completely stupid thing that will inevitably waste your time. People are the world, and your future... they're too important to treat them badly, even the ones you can't really relate to. I learned the hard way that a lot of the people I always thought were beneath me actually just hadn't quite caught up with what I was saying, and once I gave them a chance we were all a lot happier and more comfortable having to muddle through this crazy world together. There aren't enough words in the world to say how much I regret those 20 years before that (which I spent as a paranoid little ice bitch), now that I've learned the difference that basic good manners and a little consideration can make in life.

^-^'

Tell you what, Impy: spend the next 20 years answering the phone when telemarketers call, and then let's examine this subject again, if we're both still around.

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As regards the stilted "conversation," one thing to remember is that it doesn't look the same to the characters as it does to us. Sara has no obvious reason to know that half elves develop more slowly than humans. To her Meji looks like an oddly-dressed, pushy 14-year-old with unusual ears and hair. Show of hands, please: how many of us, at age 21 (which, remember, is Sara's actual age), were (or are) comfortable dealing with a 14YO that we didn't know, who was trying to act "adult" beyond what we perceived as reasonable? At an age well beyond 21, I do not believe myself grossly lacking in social skills, but my hand is not raised.

I don't think we know enough of Sara yet to really know what her personality is like, underneath all the baggage. I'm pretty sure, though, that it would take someone way out on the end of the empathy bell curve to react much differently than she has here.

Compatible doesn't mean they'll like one another. I despise Ian. He's impulsive to the point of excess, and only seems to cause himself greater misery through poorly thought-out actions, even though he appears to have benefitted the people he desired to.

I feel Ian is a weakling, which is exactly why he's the sort of person I could have a heated arguement with.

A little backstory maybe: I knew this book-smart asian kid in highschool. A bit of a social outcast, he had bizarre hobbies, and liked to announce his displeasure at getting anything less than 100% in the interim examinations.

I sat only 2 seats away from him.. it was only a matter of time he'd discover my existance, and try to talk to me. Casual observation had put me at not wanting to invest effort in the boy, as he carried an almost palpable sense of arrogance with him. Ironically I'm told by e-friends that I seem arrogant, but believe me, this guy was MUCH worse.

... He tried to talk to me for 9 months. I'd rather forget 2005 if I could. Seriously. He was a parasite, leeching attention by attaching himself to anyone around him, and forcibly injecting himself into social strata that were totally beyond him.

Next best thing was when he tried to discuss how to build an electromagnetic rail-gun.. or something ridiculous like that. Now.. as a caucasian student who achieves 90% averages in sciences, he had assumed that I'd probably care about the topic.. but no. This guy aggravated me to extremes, and when I completely shut down his strings of monologues, he exclaimed out loud that I was a bigot. Putting that asshole back in his place earnt me a reputation for notoriety.

I never laid a hand on him. He was such a pathetic excuse for a man I wouldn't waste my time.. doesn't mean I couldn't argue with him.

I'd treat Ian the same way, probably. If he was a puny human, living in our presumably magically null existance, he'd probably get treated the same way as little Robin did.

Sara's got it in her, she just needs to find someone that doesn't immediately rub off as stupid, so that she's at least engaged before she becomes annoyed enough to simply walk away.

Put it this way, had that been Sarine harassing the crap out of Sara, she might have snapped back with something venomous as befits Sara's temper.

Umm... evidence would seem to point that Sara has no temper to speak of. Sarine has harrassed her before (and much like Meji, in an attempt to get a reaction), as shown here: http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2007-05-02
and here:http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2007-05-04

Sara didn't react much, even with Sarine insulting one of the few people we can be relatively certain Sara admires. I think you might be reading a bit too much of yourself into Sara's character.

As for the rest, I'm with Impy on treating people with politeness. And this coming from someone who is utterly lost in most social situations. I have a theoretical understanding of the principles at work, but no ability to make use of them.

I show interest in what people are saying, even though I see no point in the exercise, and offer help when they need it even if I don't particularly care for the person (even with things I don't like). I even listen to telemarketers and *gasp* politely decline their offers after hearing them out a little while (even knowing I'm not going to accept whatever they're offering).

I get along well enough with most people, which as far as my interactions with them go is about as much as I could hope for. Even being the seemingly shy, quiet type, I get invited to events instead of shunned. And this is from people that have joked that they wouldn't be surprised if I were the type to suddenly snap and go on a serial killing spree.

I imagine things might have been harder for me if, on top of being as different from people around me as I am, I had also treated them with contempt instead of cordiality. I kind of believe in 'karma', in that respect. You get as good as you give, so its better to help your luck along a bit.