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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:19 pm 
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BloodHenge wrote:
Initial B wrote:
I am in awe that Ian simply used his forearm and a hand to block the axe-of-god. Even then, the axe appears to have slightly embedded in his arm and even I have to admit that Ian seems to be bleeding profusely through his various orfices, so Ian does have limits.

I just wonder whether Luminosita is spouting those lines of his own free will, or if he has been brainwashed to spout the party line by the Veracian Church.

I just had a thought about the dispel - perhaps the spell is not to dispel Luminosita, but perhaps just his axe. Then again, perhaps Ian just dispeled the enchantment that the Veracian church used to control Luminosita. Hmmm, if Luminosita suddenly has free will again, I wonder if he will be vengeful about being controlled by such paltry little beings and exact retribution on the church and city and country.

As a magical construct, I don't think Luminosita has a will of its own. It only says what it's told to say (or programmed to say). Somehow, I doubt a theocratic magocracy would give their secret weapon more than a rudimentary program, and if Luminosita's control enchantment is destroyed, it'll probably just dissipate. (The violence and speed of that dissipation depends entirely on how magic works and how Luminosita's power was contained in the first place.)


I dunno. Luminosita's ravings seem kind of situationally relevant in this case. Less stock phrases to a random heathen and more a god laying the smackdown on a wannabe. He's 'out of it' in the sense that once uppon a time, he was probably 'in it'. I'm still revising my looney theories to if monday's comic is anything other than a mushroom cloud over Emyrlon, it'll be a man-behind-the-curtain reveal of one of the missing paedagousi.

Also, I'm pretty sure that's either a flaming whip or a torch, not a sword.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:47 pm 
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normalphil wrote:
I dunno. Luminosita's ravings seem kind of situationally relevant in this case. Less stock phrases to a random heathen and more a god laying the smackdown on a wannabe. He's 'out of it' in the sense that once uppon a time, he was probably 'in it'. I'm still revising my looney theories to if monday's comic is anything other than a mushroom cloud over Emyrlon, it'll be a man-behind-the-curtain reveal of one of the missing paedagousi.


I'm still really hoping that Luminosita just kind of fizzles out undramatically, Ian drops back down in the Patriach's chamber, and says "As I was saying, I want to know..." like it's all no big deal that he just got attacked by their "god".

Nothing says bad ass like nonchalantly dismissing what'd normally be considered a huge threat. That's what made Neo (post-enlightenment) from the Matrix so cool; these previously unstoppable Agents come at him and all he really has to do is say "no".

That's also why I find aikido so appealing. Minimalist responses to aggressive attacks that make the whole fight seem like more of an annoyance than a real threat. Fearlessness speaks volumes to one's (self-assessed) superiority.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:00 pm 
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I'm hoping for Luminosita to win. Not expecting it, but hoping for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:06 pm 
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Heh, I can hardly believe the stupidity in blocking the weapon of a god with your hands. You'd think he'd have summoned some form of magical shield or just gone really fast like a time-monk. Still Lumi' seems to have to swing those things rather roughly.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:39 pm 
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Of course, it would be rather interesting if Luminosita has pulled a lense. Not that I expect that is terribly likely.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:32 pm 
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Kerostasis wrote:
Slamlander wrote:
I also note that there is no mention of such hesitancy when Veracia attacked the Confederation (well-known to not be magic users). However, Veracia still lost. I wonder how long the Confederacy would hesitate once Luminosita is dispelled? Place bets in increments of hours.


My bets on 39 hours.

...

Gotta wait a little bit for the news to travel, right?


By word-of-mouth relay, that could be pretty fast. :wink:

Caio, off to Stresa, IT.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:36 am 
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Well...assuming that Luminosita is not JUST a magical construct and actually was a free willed deity at some point, he may very well recognize the human avatar of Anilis. That is if only by the sheer power that Ian is weilding.

My guess, the Dispel destroys his weapons and also quite possibly the "control" summoning spell that the church is using on him.

Past that point it all depends on if he was an enslaved genuine pre-existing deity type creature or purely artificial. After all it is a widely held opinion that he/it is a construct but the people(in the comic) holding such opinions have their own pre-existing biases against the Verician Church and it fits a little too terribly nicely with their notions that the "god" would be fake as it would severely diminish the legitimacy of the Church, at least in their mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:06 am 
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Ged wrote:
Heh, I can hardly believe the stupidity in blocking the weapon of a god with your hands. You'd think he'd have summoned some form of magical shield or just gone really fast like a time-monk. Still Lumi' seems to have to swing those things rather roughly.


Well in regards to that perhaps the entire fight is fast time afterall I assume Luminosita is capable of time magic, then again Sarine seemed not to use it so maybe elven gods don't either? As for blocking we know Ian's starting to say a spell or something here so he may have simply been unable to cast a shield creation spell in time. Luminosita did get equiped before swatting him (I assume).

I have to say there's really no way for this to end well in my opinion.

1) Ian dispells sword/axe/thingy. Fight goes on doing more damage to combatants and surrounding area.

2) Ian dispells Luminosita. Potential massive magical explosion or if that doesn't happen massive cultural upheaval leaving Varacia prey to invasion with their god gone (assuming there are embassies who's ambassadors may notice this fight).

3) Ian dispells controls on Luminosita. Possible revealation of a very angry god now free, possible uncontrolled godlike force of destruction on rampage.

4) Ian dies. What would be the side effects of a god dieing?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:55 am 
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Senko wrote:
4) Ian dies. What would be the side effects of a god dieing?


Ian is not a god, there is a god inside Ian. Or so it seems and there is a difference. If Ian dies then the god can just find another body to use. So what are the side effects of a real god taking over Luminosita?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:23 pm 
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Anyone else think Luminosita is rather dwarf-like?

*dun dun dun*

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Mista_B wrote:
Anyone else think Luminosita is rather dwarf-like?


Since we haven't seen a dwarf yet in the Poe-verse, there is no way to tell. However, it's interesting that Luminosita is not particularly human-like. Neither the clothing nor the overblown beard match what we have seen of humans in Veracia or elsewhere. If this is the Veracian Church's idea of what a ghod should look like, where did that idea come from?

One is tempted to speculate that Luminosita is not a Veracian creation, but rather the product of some weird dwarven artifact that is about to be discovered by Ian. Yes, Sarine has said the dwarves couldn't use magic. But might there be something about them that she and the elves don't know? Maybe they figured a way to manipulate mana by way of an artificial construct, even though they lacked the power to do it themselves. Then millennia later, when the primitive Veracians stumbled across the dwarven artifact, turned it on, and got an 80-foot-tall magical manifestation, they said, "Hmmm, better worship this thing until we know what it is, and then turn it against our enemies." Seems like that would fit the facts -- apart from the little matter of non-magical dwarves, of course.

Impy, PLEASE get my wiki problem fixed. Got tons of editing to do as this thread unfolds, plus I want to get started on the FAQ.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:13 pm 
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Graybeard wrote:
Mista_B wrote:
Anyone else think Luminosita is rather dwarf-like?

Since we haven't seen a dwarf yet in the Poe-verse, there is no way to tell. However, it's interesting that Luminosita is not particularly human-like. Neither the clothing nor the overblown beard match what we have seen of humans in Veracia or elsewhere. If this is the Veracian Church's idea of what a ghod should look like, where did that idea come from?


I don't quite see why everyone thinks Lumi looks Dwarven or otherwise non-human. He looks like the typical big-guy-with-a-beard-in-the-sky that I expected him to look like. Beards = age = superiority in primitive human cultures, so gods are old bearded guys in the sky. He looks an awful lot like Zeus if you ask me.

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One is tempted to speculate that Luminosita is not a Veracian creation, but rather the product of some weird dwarven artifact that is about to be discovered by Ian. Yes, Sarine has said the dwarves couldn't use magic. But might there be something about them that she and the elves don't know? Maybe they figured a way to manipulate mana by way of an artificial construct, even though they lacked the power to do it themselves. Then millennia later, when the primitive Veracians stumbled across the dwarven artifact, turned it on, and got an 80-foot-tall magical manifestation, they said, "Hmmm, better worship this thing until we know what it is, and then turn it against our enemies." Seems like that would fit the facts -- apart from the little matter of non-magical dwarves, of course.


Also the fact that the Dwarven lands were in the north, where the Confederacy now is, so it'd be unlikely that humans way down in Veracia would stumble across a Dwarven artifact in the middle of a swamp, unless it was traded to the ancient Elves or something.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:25 pm 
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I just hope this ends in the Confederacy going to war with Tsuirakushiti over the corpse of Veracia. It would certainly liven things up.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:36 pm 
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While I was in Stresa, I thought of another possibility. This came upon me while we were touring through Isola Bella, a home of the Borromeo clan that produced at least one Pope and one cannonized Saint. They were related to the Medici's and the Medici Popes.

This is strictly hypothesis:

First, we have no idea why Ian is attacking Luminosita. We haven't even speculated on this point very hard.

Second, we know that Ian has pretty much been doing unrestricted healing, in Santaurel and word has definitely been getting out there. In addition, we know that it's healing that is far beyond what the Veracian church can do. We even speculated that it might get the Veracian church to respond negatively.

Third, the Veracian Church teachs that magic is evil, unless it's a priest doing it (sound pretty Catholic to me).

What if; the local bishop got word and did respond and, once he found out that it was a whole village of half-elves, sent in an army to wipe them out. This happened after Meji left.

The best way to destroy any religion is to discredit their gods. Ian, pissed off about the local bishop's response, decided to eliminate Luminosita, and thereby, the Veracian Church.

This could explain the current battle. Remember that, this is pure hypothetical speculation. But the Catholic Church actually did something like this in the Longdoc province of France, against the Cathar cult, declaring them heretics, and putting even women and children to the sword and burning them at the stake.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Unlikely. Santuariel is in the north and close to, if not part of, the Confederacy. We know Confederacy doesn't like Veracia, who attacked them at one point in time, so presence of the church in the Confederacy is unlikely and local church wielding any such power is very much improbable if not impossible. Santuariel still stands until otherwise stated in the comic.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:30 pm 
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ooo, just made a fun connection!

Ian vs. Luminosita
=
Meat Puppet of a God vs. the God Puppet of Meat

(if we accept in this case that the Veracian Church can itself be considered as an entity constructed of and by Meat, of course.)

*edit*
And I wonder if Ian has enough free will anymore to be considered a real person, any more than Luminosita can be considered a real god?
Whoohoo, diametric opposition and literary parallels FTW!!


Last edited by spacecoyote_vega on Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:31 pm 
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pillaroforder wrote:
Unlikely. Santuariel is in the north and close to, if not part of, the Confederacy. We know Confederacy doesn't like Veracia, who attacked them at one point in time, so presence of the church in the Confederacy is unlikely and local church wielding any such power is very much improbable if not impossible. Santuariel still stands until otherwise stated in the comic.



I didn't say that they fell, only that they may have been attacked. With Ian on their side, how successful do you think it was?

As to location, near as I can recall, Santauriel is close to, and not part of, the Confederacy. This means that they are a part of Veracia.

Again, it may not have happened at all. It is strictly a hypothesis.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:01 pm 
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You've touched here on something that has been bothering me for a long time.
Slamlander wrote:
pillaroforder wrote:
Unlikely. Santuariel is in the north and close to, if not part of, the Confederacy. We know Confederacy doesn't like Veracia, who attacked them at one point in time, so presence of the church in the Confederacy is unlikely and local church wielding any such power is very much improbable if not impossible. Santuariel still stands until otherwise stated in the comic.



I didn't say that they fell, only that they may have been attacked. With Ian on their side, how successful do you think it was?

As to location, near as I can recall, Santauriel is close to, and not part of, the Confederacy. This means that they are a part of Veracia.


Actually, we don't know exactly where Santuariel is, but we do know that Salvus is the Northern Confederacy's "gateway" to Veracia, and that Veracia is more easily reached from there than from Santuariel. When Ian caught his first ride with Riley and Leah, they were heading "down" to Salvus from Santuariel, and said he could probably find "a coach going south to Veracia" and points beyond. Most of the plausible interpretations for that sequence suggest that Santuariel is somewhere north of Salvus, a day's journey or less by wagon (we know that), and most likely within the Confederacy. Later, Meji also talked about a trade route "down" to Saus from Santuariel, which reinforces the point.

We also know that when Ian was flying toward Santuariel with Meji, the route from Farrel to Santuariel went over Salvus. Looking at the map and drawing a straight line from southern Farrel to the Veracia/Confederacy border where Salvus presumably is, and extending that on for some short distance, the obvious conclusion is that Santuariel is either in the Northern Confederacy or possibly on that unnamed strip of land between the Confederacy and the eastern sea.

Where exactly did you get the idea that Santuariel is not in the Confederacy? I don't see it, except for a reference in the wiki that I don't think has ever been confirmed.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:24 pm 
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You know some guy was just sitting on his roof toking on a bong or something, enjoying his afternoon, when all this took place.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:53 pm 
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Graybeard wrote:
You've touched here on something that has been bothering me for a long time.
Slamlander wrote:
pillaroforder wrote:
Unlikely. Santuariel is in the north and close to, if not part of, the Confederacy. We know Confederacy doesn't like Veracia, who attacked them at one point in time, so presence of the church in the Confederacy is unlikely and local church wielding any such power is very much improbable if not impossible. Santuariel still stands until otherwise stated in the comic.



I didn't say that they fell, only that they may have been attacked. With Ian on their side, how successful do you think it was?

As to location, near as I can recall, Santauriel is close to, and not part of, the Confederacy. This means that they are a part of Veracia.


Actually, we don't know exactly where Santuariel is, but we do know that Salvus is the Northern Confederacy's "gateway" to Veracia, and that Veracia is more easily reached from there than from Santuariel. When Ian caught his first ride with Riley and Leah, they were heading "down" to Salvus from Santuariel, and said he could probably find "a coach going south to Veracia" and points beyond. Most of the plausible interpretations for that sequence suggest that Santuariel is somewhere north of Salvus, a day's journey or less by wagon (we know that), and most likely within the Confederacy. Later, Meji also talked about a trade route "down" to Saus from Santuariel, which reinforces the point.

We also know that when Ian was flying toward Santuariel with Meji, the route from Farrel to Santuariel went over Salvus. Looking at the map and drawing a straight line from southern Farrel to the Veracia/Confederacy border where Salvus presumably is, and extending that on for some short distance, the obvious conclusion is that Santuariel is either in the Northern Confederacy or possibly on that unnamed strip of land between the Confederacy and the eastern sea.

Where exactly did you get the idea that Santuariel is not in the Confederacy? I don't see it, except for a reference in the wiki that I don't think has ever been confirmed.


All of this works except that we know less about Salvus than Santauriel. I agree. Although you've dug up wonderful evidence for the rough general location of both. One assumption I see is that Salvus is in the Confederacy. Climatologically, you don't have deserts on the shores of northern latitude sounds. This leads to the possible conclusion that both towns are in that three-corner area that the end of that sound points to and where Veracia, The Confederacy, and the unknown territories meet.

Is it possible that neither Salvus or Santauriel are actually in the Confederacy? Another thing that's been bothering me, humans are K-strategists, the only reason that there would be unclaimed land is that it's is already occupied, probably my something dangerous. That whole unclaimed area to the west of the Confederacy has had me curious for a while. The home of dangerous dwarf machines? Trollheim? Hidden Elf nation?

I've derived a couple of maps but since we don't have image upload capability, it's hard to share them.

EDIT: I just created an Imageshack account, we'll see ....

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