ZOMBIE FORUMS

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:58 pm 
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Insane_Megalamaniac wrote:
Slamlander wrote:
drunk wrote:
In regards to the discussion on bullets == lead, is it known whether the ES. world even has the same elements as ours? They could have some metal that's sexier for bullets.


Like depleted uranium?


Highly impractical for anything other than anti-tank AP rounds. It doesn't deform enough to be useful against flesh, it's much more difficult to work with than lead, and inhaling dust from that shit when you lathe it or seat it into the case is a good way to die a slow and painful death.


Works good on any anti-armor application and U238 is cast, IIRC. Yes, it is indeed nasty stuff to work with. Also, the round has to be able to break the sound barrier.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:31 pm 
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Wark wrote:
On a random note...

Kestenvarn wrote:


When did this happen?

I changed it that way a couple of days ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Slamlander wrote:
Insane_Megalamaniac wrote:
Slamlander wrote:
drunk wrote:
In regards to the discussion on bullets == lead, is it known whether the ES. world even has the same elements as ours? They could have some metal that's sexier for bullets.


Like depleted uranium?


Highly impractical for anything other than anti-tank AP rounds. It doesn't deform enough to be useful against flesh, it's much more difficult to work with than lead, and inhaling dust from that shit when you lathe it or seat it into the case is a good way to die a slow and painful death.


Works good on any anti-armor application and U238 is cast, IIRC. Yes, it is indeed nasty stuff to work with. Also, the round has to be able to break the sound barrier.


Yeah, see, there were very, very few ultrasonic blackpowder firearms, and the one that did exist slowed to subsonic speeds very quickly. A handgun would have no chance of doing it.

Besides, with the size of the bullets, it simply isn't worth the effort to use uranium.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:42 pm 
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You don't think he's using smokeless powder?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Slamlander wrote:
BloodHenge wrote:
ugh... Adamantine AP rounds?

Not enough weight (mass density).

Doesn't matter. It automatically punches through any softer materials as if they were paper.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Sair wrote:
You don't think he's using smokeless powder?


Unless the people manufacturing the Gewehr's ammunition have access to a full petroleum industry, no. If they were using smokeless powder, Jon wouldn't need such large cartridges to propel such a small bullet at the high velocities needed to penetrate armor. With smokeless powder, you simply increase the pressure to gain higher velocities; with blackpowder you have to increase the amount of powder to gain that higher pressure, which means bigger cartridges.

Just looking at the level of technology Jon and his cohorts have, it's obvious the most they've got, at least in terms of weaponry, is equivelent to our late 19th century. And that's actual technology, not magically powered technology like Meji's folks.

Now, since they have cartridge technology, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to advance to simple auto-loaders like the Mauser c96 "broomhandle". Obviously larger, or at least less efficient, ammunition would be used, but a semi-automatic carbine would definitely not be out of the question for the Gewehr. And from there it's a simple step to fully-automatic firearms, the same way a semi-auto pistol with a 10-round capacity in 1896 became a fully-automatic weapon with 20-round detachable magazines in 1932.

Ensigerum monk: "The Gewehr have slow single-action revolvers. In the time it takes them to cock, aim, and pull the trigger, we can easily dodge with our time magic!"

Gewehr assassin: "Dodge this." *empties entire magazine in the span of two seconds*

Ensigerum monk: "Holy shi-" *takes fourteen rounds to the torso*

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:29 pm 
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As much as I love watching you guys talk about this, I have a feeling that Poe is not an ardent student of the history of gunsmithing, and Jon merely has a "pistol" and a "rifle", which use "bullets".

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:30 pm 
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A visual guide to Gewehr weaponry, as I understand it.

The Gewehr now:

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The Colt Single Action Army revolver, chambered in a number of calibers, but most infamously .45 Long Colt. Six round capacity, the hammer had to be manually cocked to fire the weapon each time. Jon's revolver appears to be based heavily on the SAA in terms of function.

Image

The Colt "Walker" revolver, .44 caliber, pre-cartridge technology. The first "magnum" handgun because the larger cylinder allowed more powder to be used (thus increasing the velocity of the bullet) and the frame was heavier and more able to withstand the pressures of added gunpowder. Jon's revolver appears to be based on this revolver in terms of appearance. Like the later SAA, this revolver is single-action in function and must be cocked each time to fire.



Within a few years, twenty at most, the Gewehr can have upgraded to more efficient firearms, like so:

Image

A modern Smith & Wesson Model 586 double-action revolver, .357 Magnum. The most obvious upgrade in technology would be double-action rather than single-action revolvers. With double-action, you no longer have to cock the hammer, then pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger cocks the hammer and drops it in one motion, allowing for a faster rate of fire.

Image

The Mauser auto-loading pistol of 1896. Superior to revolvers in many ways. Instead of holding only six rounds (some revolvers in smaller calibers, such as the Nagant Model 1895, held seven or eight rounds, but most held six) it had a capacity of ten rounds. And unlike most revolvers, which could only be loaded one round at a time (Jon's can be loaded much more quickly since the entire cylinder pops out like modern revolvers), it can be loaded in seconds by placing a clip holding ten cartridges above the magazine and pushing them into the magazine to load it. Every shot was single-action (lighter trigger pull than double-action) because the hammer was automatically cocked when the spent cartridge was ejected and the next one chambered. Later innovations such as replacing the built-in magazine with a removable one (allowing for even faster reloading by simply swapping out magazines, like modern pistols do) and discovering the principles behind fully-automatic fire improved the Mauser c96 even further in 1932.

Image


Of course, Poe's universe has obvious differences. Technology could take a totally different route than ours, especially with the influence of magic. Even Jon's revolver is an amalgamation of firearms from different time periods: the outward appearance of a Walker percussion revolver, the function of a Colt SAA cartridge revolver, and the opening cylinder of a modern revolver for faster reloading.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Tossrock wrote:
As much as I love watching you guys talk about this, I have a feeling that Poe is not an ardent student of the history of gunsmithing, and Jon merely has a "pistol" and a "rifle", which use "bullets".


We're keeping the catgirl population in check, so hush you.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Insane_Megalamaniac wrote:
Tossrock wrote:
As much as I love watching you guys talk about this, I have a feeling that Poe is not an ardent student of the history of gunsmithing, and Jon merely has a "pistol" and a "rifle", which use "bullets".


We're keeping the catgirl population in check, so hush you.


Good point. They have been getting out of hand recently.

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