ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Too bad he's about to get his but kicked. and killed.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:09 pm 
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I like how Jon's expression changes from grimly determined, to wait... to hmmm... to wtf?! in one smooth transition.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:23 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:47 pm 
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At least no one jumped on the lolcopter.


I love the changes in his face while Sara remains stoic and grim. I guess maybe she's changed since last they parted and he's probably still the same as ever.


Also, I wonder what Sarine'll do to get Jon out of this one. Let's hope she doesn't try to kill Sara!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:42 pm 
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And just when you thought the last family renunion YOU attended was awkward...

I guess the question on everyone's mind right now is if this reunion will have a "relatively" happy ending, with the little sister/big brother reconciliation thing, or not? As confused and pissed as Jon is, beneath the assassin exterior lies a half decent person who, aside from the killing people in exchange for money bit, has tried to help people, (including Meji), because of his sister. He deserves so much better than to have to (A) kill her, or (B) be killed by her. THAT wouldn't be right. In fact, that would just be fucked up and cruel. :(

And as ready-to-kill that Sara appears, (and you've gotta admit, she's not unfamiliar with dealing measured doses of the murder syrup herself), she's an unfortunate victim of circumstance as well. Jon hooked up with the Gewhers in a severely misguided effort to help his family, and she was standing there as Jon tried to rationalize it to their mother. I have a hard time believing that Sara would so easily forget that Jon was willing to sacrifice himself and his soul for her sake, when nobody else could have provided for them at the time. Sure, it was blood money, but his heart was in the right place, right? I'm sure she remembers the last time she saw him, and i hope she comprehends the events of the past with enough clarity that she could, at the very least, give them both a chance to make up for lost time.

I hope.


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Quick question to Poe or Impy - what kind of sibling relationship did Jon and Sara have as they were growing up together anyway? given that the plot has justed reached a significant climax, i'm certain inquiring minds would want to know :)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:51 pm 
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Rubber Band Man wrote:
Dude, Sara doesn't just look like she has apathy, she looks PISSED. I bet shes angry for John ditching her way back when.

I do not see Jon getting outta this in one Jon-shaped piece.


He's her brother not her ex.
'Sides whatever super-epic plot this is building up towards I'm sure a ninja-time monk would be extremely useful.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:16 am 
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He didn't say Jon was Sara's ex, he said she was probably mad at him for ditching her. As in, you know, ditching her instead of hanging around to care for family? Simple concept.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:11 pm 
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In my experience, the power of family can make you forgive or at least generally overlook any number of sins.

But maybe I just lucked out on family.

-_-?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 pm 
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But what of the power of family with respect for brainwashing cults?
Could be the kind of case where the normal rules of relativity break down.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:47 pm 
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Maybe he can be forgiven, but not until after being beaten to a bloody pulp. There's only so many times a kid can get abandoned before they start seeing a pattern. Lets recap:

Her dad was shot. Shortly after, her brother becomes a hired gunman. It isn't entirly rational - but from her point of view, Jon is responsible.

Mom tosses Jon out on the street. From her perspective, abandoning Sara, mom, and an unborn child into starvation and poverty.

Starvation and poverty aren't great contributors to getting good prenatal care, so possibly Mom and the baby died in childbirth since Jon left. Worst case scenario, the baby survives and Sara's stuck with doing anything your average homeless pedo-bait can reasonably do to keep a baby from starving to death.

At some point she lands in an orphanage. I'm not sure if Jon physically dumps her there or not, but at the very least he consciously allowed it. She's completely outcast from the other kids & and caretakers there due to unexplainable bad luck.

Even the orphanage proceeds to abandon her... giving her to some monks and a healthy regiment of daily physical and psychological abuse.

And now... the only family she knows threaten to abandon her yet again, unless Jon dies.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:03 pm 
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Rebuttal:

Maybe she kept hope in all that time that Jon really was going to come through for everyone and make things right. Maybe he was her hero and she became strong so that she would measure up to the man her brother was.

Or, she's ready to kill him and completely blames him for leaving her to what was, for all we know, a hellish shrew of a mother that caned her daily before selling her off to someone for a little bit of money, whereby she inexplicable becomes a badass monk.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Ylis wrote:
At some point she lands in an orphanage. I'm not sure if Jon physically dumps her there or not, but at the very least he consciously allowed it. She's completely outcast from the other kids & and caretakers there due to unexplainable bad luck.


They dumped her in an orphanage because no one could find Jon. He never knew what happened to her after he was tossed out.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:45 pm 
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I've sure I have just missed the info on some of the points I'm puzzling about in this subplot, but here are some questions.

How did the monks know that . . .

(a) Sara's brother was alive?
(b) Sara's brother was Gewehr?
(c) Sara's brother was on this continent?
(d) Sara's brother was available for a set-up doublecross assassination plot that could double as a test for Sara?
(e) Sara's brother would recognize Sara at all? If he sees her, pulls a gun, and one of them dies instantly, nothing has been proven.
(f) Sara's brother gave enough of a damn about her to actually serve as a test? Same situation as above, as the duel could end before anyone has any reaction other than combat reflex.
(f) Sara cares enough about her brother to make killing him any sort of a test? She's very tightly wrapped. And very well cut, but that's another topic.
(g) If the monks have good enough intel sources to locate a rootless vagrant like Jon, why haven't they exterminated the Gewehr already?

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Last edited by Boss Out of Town on Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:57 pm 
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Insane_Megalamaniac wrote:
He didn't say Jon was Sara's ex, he said she was probably mad at him for ditching her. As in, you know, ditching her instead of hanging around to care for family? Simple concept.


Actually, the page that someone just pointed to told us that Jon did hang around and earned some money for the family. Their mother rejected the "dirty" money and kicked him out. Sara was watching.

Now, if Sara were totally irrational, she might blame this on him. But she has followed in his footsteps, although she joined a competing gang of nasties. The more likely guess is that, if Jon and Sarine can say the right words, she'll throw over her brainwashing and side with them. After helping wipe out Warrel, of course. Or maybe they'll be sure to leave him alive so he can tell his bosses what just happened.

I like the theory that what we have here is the further formation of the planet's baddest team ever. A 3000-year old elf ranger, a professional assassin, a time monk, an "errant" partly occupied by an elderly god - and a cute but scary little devil girl trying to complete her final exam.

Meanwhile, where did Ellis flutter off to?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:31 pm 
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My guess is sara isnt brainwashed, she just doesnt give a crap anymore.
The bad ass time monks actually gave purpose to her lonely fucked up life so she'll try and kill jon without a second thought, because thats her job.

Of course, while trying to complete her job she'll get her ass knocked out, or will have to save warrel's ass and retreat.
I could go on to guess that the monks wont be to happy about that and would have rather she let warrel die and finished her job.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Boss Out of Town wrote:

(a) Sara's brother was alive?
(b) Sara's brother was Gewehr?
(c) Sara's brother was on this continent?
(d) Sara's brother was available for a set-up doublecross assassination plot that could double as a test for Sara?
(e) Sara's brother would recognize Sara at all? If he sees her, pulls a gun, and one of them dies instantly, nothing has been proven.
(f) Sara's brother gave enough of a damn about her to actually serve as a test? Same situation as above, as the duel could end before anyone has any reaction other than combat reflex.
(f) Sara cares enough about her brother to make killing him any sort of a test? She's very tightly wrapped. And very well cut, but that's another topic.
(g) If the monks have good enough intel sources to locate a rootless vagrant like Jon, why haven't they exterminated the Gewehr already?


A-D: They were looking for info on the Gwehr, and John's name popped up as the assassan that was going to do the job. They put two and two together and decided to put Sara on the mission to see if she would freak out.

E: Who even knows if they were planning Jon to notice her at all? They weren't planning on Sara Noticing it on the job, they made it very clear before hand who she was going to kill.

F: Well, if she doesn't give a damn about her brother, I doubt there is anything else in the outside world she may give a damn about.

G: This is a two-for-one, fucking up the Gewehr and testing what Sara would do.

All and all, I don't see Sara freaking out over jon, if she was going to run away she prolly would of just run away while Warrel was on the can or something (What happens when you go super-speed while taking a crap? I don't think it would be very pretty...)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:37 pm 
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Boss Out of Town wrote:
(e) Sara's brother would recognize Sara at all? If he sees her, pulls a gun, and one of them dies instantly, nothing has been proven.
(f) Sara's brother gave enough of a damn about her to actually serve as a test? Same situation as above, as the duel could end before anyone has any reaction other than combat reflex.
(f) Sara cares enough about her brother to make killing him any sort of a test? She's very tightly wrapped. And very well cut, but that's another topic.
(g) If the monks have good enough intel sources to locate a rootless vagrant like Jon, why haven't they exterminated the Gewehr already?


F1 and F2 don't really matter. The whole point of the test is to ensure that there are no bonds of familial loyalty left in Sara. If neither recognized or remembered the other, if they treated each other just like two strangers on the street, then the test was passed without even having to have an internal struggle.

As for the later, it's basically the same reason the elves haven't killed off all the half-elves yet, even after a thousand years. It's like killing cockroaches; for every one you see there're ten more in hiding, just waiting to breed more. They'll eventually win because the Geywar are completely outclassed, but it's hard to squash every bug when they're all scurrying around like that.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:35 pm 
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Do we have any idea how exactly Jon's dad died, who he was, or anything like that?

Edit: looked it up on the Wiki and confirmed the funny flash of intuition that inspired this question. Reading the old page where Jon's mom threw him out, I had this weird flash that Jon's dad = Correl... which would make Chris Jon and Sara's unknown little brother. No idea how off-base this is... but Jon's dad was killed by "assassins" according to the Wiki. It could be...

Further edit: I thought their differences in hair color might rule that out, but then Jon and Sara have different hair colors too. Jon's is black, Sara's seems to be brown, and Chris is a dirty blonde. One thing that *could* throw a big wrench in this theory is that the Ensigerum know Sara's last name and aren't treating her harshly like they are Chris, so unless Jon and Sara somehow got a different last name than their dad... kinda kills that I guess.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:10 pm 
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To return to the Sara = blame Jon debate I'd like to point out two things.

1) The Eseigngarm have always had the tradition of killing off family members as a final exam to prove your loyalty its just that the current Primarch decided to reintroduce it after years of languishing to ensure they had a loyal convert who could be trusted in these uncertain times.

2) Sara could very easily be wondering how long the order had known about her brothers location and whether they deliberately hid her from him when she was thrown into that orphanage.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:30 pm 
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But the order DIDN'T know where he was, they only knew he was around when they got a report on how the assassian ambush job was set up, and who would be likely to man it.

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