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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:02 pm 
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Zherical wrote:
How can we say elves are truly immortal? They have to germinate, grow, be born, grow, puberty sets in, grow a little more, and then adulthood.

Just because no elf we've seen is old yet, doesn't mean it can't happen to them. Any creature that grows from a single cell into something more complex *obviously* is affected by time, in one form or another.


Yeah, um, "obviously". :roll:

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 Post subject: shut up shut up shut up
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:11 pm 
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Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:04 pm 
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Forrest wrote:
If the world was that old, you'd think that some Elves would would be showing some wrinkles by now. That, and the fact that Sarine called the Dwarves immortal, and seems to think mortality is a weird and alien idea when talking to her beau in the prologue, leads me to think that the Elves are probably, as per the stereotype, longevously immortal. They never just wear out and kick the bucket - something's gotta off 'em.

Mebbe at a certain age they get a buddhalike revelation and because of it fuck off to Tolkien's Valinor where they can hang out with less retarded elves.


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 Post subject: Re: shut up shut up shut up
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:32 pm 
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Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
Kestenvarn wrote:
This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.

This thread has the retards.

This thread has the petards.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:56 pm 
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Let's lay it out. The gods kept getting shit wrong, so they fixed it with each new race. They made Dwarves--SHITTY IDEA. Immortal (fun, right?) but unable to breed. They had the trolls---SHITTY IDEA. Savages, killers, satisfying base needs, BUT breedable.

So...Elves? Nearly immortal, intelligent, breedable, refined. Seemed good, but the elves got bored, they hated their own breeding cycle, and they didn't really...well, entertain.

So...humans? WTF? WAY NOT immortal, intelligent, HIGHLY breedable, capable of trollish savagery but also the refinement of elves. Able to organize en masse in a very short lifespan. An unattainable level of spirt and wonder that pleased the gods. In short, replacements.

Hey, why do you think the gods were "asleep"? They poured all of themselves into humans, their replacements. A species that would endure and keep the world enduring with it, in the abscence of gods. And, hell, maybe one day, something human (or something nearly human) would come along and wake them back up. Maybe it's time the gods start shopping for replacements to their replacements?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:14 am 
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Killjoy wrote:
Zherical wrote:
How can we say elves are truly immortal? They have to germinate, grow, be born, grow, puberty sets in, grow a little more, and then adulthood.

Just because no elf we've seen is old yet, doesn't mean it can't happen to them. Any creature that grows from a single cell into something more complex *obviously* is affected by time, in one form or another.


Yeah, um, "obviously". :roll:


It IS!

I present exhibit A: The dwarves. Immortal (in the true sense), blindingly intelligent and powerful. Now extinct. Why? They lacked reproductive capabilities. How does that matter?

Simple: If the dwarves did have reproductive organs, then their makeup is such that they'd never make it past fertilisation. Nothing would grow.

Time is good for one thing, and I believe it is change. The poem of ozymandius is a good testament to this (and further thought reminds me that one of the first pages of this comic quotes that poem).

Anyway, elves theoretically -should- grow old. One day.

[edit] I didn't see forrest's post when I wrote this. I have pretty much repeated what he said :\


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:10 am 
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Zherical wrote:
[edit] I didn't see forrest's post when I wrote this. I have pretty much repeated what he said :\


Not really... you used the same bit of evidence to draw the opposite conclusion.

I was saying that the ES world is really, really fucking old - so old that a race of strong, smart, magically powerful, longevously immortal and apparently peaceful people were around long enough to build up a huge civilization and then die off entirely due to random accidents like getting hit by a bus. That's the reason I brought up Dwarves - the world is really damn old.

Given that Elves were in regular contact with the Dwarves during the early parts of (Elven) golden age, after the Elves had had long enough for the four races to mingle and unite, and the Elves are still around now, after long enough for the Dwarves to have all died off, you'd think that if Elves aged, there would be some old Elves walking around somewhere; and that Sarine, by only two thousand years ago, would have known that Elves are mortal too, and that mortality wouldn't be "such a weird concept" as she tells her boyfriend in the prologue.

BUT, since we DON'T see any wrinkly old Elves, and Sarine seems to think that mortality is a weird alien thing completely foreign to Elven life, then it follows that elves must not age. It's modus tollens.

Let P = "The world is really fucking old".
Let Q = "Elves age."
Let R = "There are old elves and elves dead of natural causes."

If P&Q then R.
Not R.
Therefore not P&Q.
Therefore (not P) or (not Q).
P.
Therefore not Q.

Elves do not age.

(Sorry... taking a break from writing a philosophy paper :-D )

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am 
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Zherical wrote:
Simple: If the dwarves did have reproductive organs, then their makeup is such that they'd never make it past fertilisation. Nothing would grow.



Well according to the fea... euh... the paedagogusi. the dwarve didn't have femelle (at least not with boobs, at the opposit of the elfes and troll -and paedagogusi-). They also couldn't reproduced with the elfes or the other race, because they didn't have the right equipment for that (Not "not mature and working equipment", but not at all).

May be you can think they were only a boobsless femelle race, but Nookie told clearly that
Quote:
they didn't start doing that Icky, Icky thing with the waste removal orifices 'till the elves


(That allow me to point the fact that Elves where most certainly already honoring the greatness of the buttsex that early in their history)

http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2005-09-26

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:18 am 
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Forrest wrote:
Zherical wrote:
How can we say elves are truly immortal? They have to germinate, grow, be born, grow, puberty sets in, grow a little more, and then adulthood.

Just because no elf we've seen is old yet, doesn't mean it can't happen to them. Any creature that grows from a single cell into something more complex *obviously* is affected by time, in one form or another.

For all we know it might take an elf 20,000 years to get a wrinkle, but as far as we know, the world they live in only appears to be half that age.


The world has been around long enough for *all* the Dwarves - a race of immortals, also highly durable and blindingly intelligent, and apparently peaceful judging by their relations with the Elves - to die off completely just from accidents and violence. Since accidents and violence are both likely to be fairly uncommon for such a wonderfully advanced civilization, it probably took a DAMN long time. (I heard once somewhere that it would take approximately 10,000 years for the odds of you getting hit by a bus to approach 100%, but I don't claim to be a statistician).


Unless the Poeverse Dwarves, like the Dwarves of Middle Earth, were big on mining. Even with our technology (which, granted, isn't quite as advanced as the Elves' magic), that's still one of the most dangerous professions on the planet.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:31 am 
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Forrest wrote:
Zherical wrote:
[edit] I didn't see forrest's post when I wrote this. I have pretty much repeated what he said :\


Not really... you used the same bit of evidence to draw the opposite conclusion.

I was saying that the ES world is really, really fucking old - so old that a race of strong, smart, magically powerful, longevously immortal and apparently peaceful people were around long enough to build up a huge civilization and then die off entirely due to random accidents like getting hit by a bus. That's the reason I brought up Dwarves - the world is really damn old.

Given that Elves were in regular contact with the Dwarves during the early parts of (Elven) golden age, after the Elves had had long enough for the four races to mingle and unite, and the Elves are still around now, after long enough for the Dwarves to have all died off, you'd think that if Elves aged, there would be some old Elves walking around somewhere; and that Sarine, by only two thousand years ago, would have known that Elves are mortal too, and that mortality wouldn't be "such a weird concept" as she tells her boyfriend in the prologue.

BUT, since we DON'T see any wrinkly old Elves, and Sarine seems to think that mortality is a weird alien thing completely foreign to Elven life, then it follows that elves must not age. It's modus tollens.

Let P = "The world is really fucking old".
Let Q = "Elves age."
Let R = "There are old elves and elves dead of natural causes."

If P&Q then R.
Not R.
Therefore not P&Q.
Therefore (not P) or (not Q).
P.
Therefore not Q.

Elves do not age.

(Sorry... taking a break from writing a philosophy paper :-D )


Don't be sorry. More people need to think logically, instead of applying wild-ass baseless speculation fueled by desire to see more random pointless buttsexx and boobage.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:34 am 
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Neko7 wrote:


The most interesting comment in that comic is that the paedagogusi don't recognize humans -- "Not a clue, I'm pretty sure they're not any of theirs." It's possible that the pair of gods that created the elves did not, in fact, create humans at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:16 am 
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I am so ashamed I participated in this thread

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:23 am 
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I am so ashamed I participated in this thread

Then you are on the path to redemption.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:23 am 
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Zherical wrote:
How can we say elves are truly immortal? They have to germinate, grow, be born, grow, puberty sets in, grow a little more, and then adulthood.

Just because no elf we've seen is old yet, doesn't mean it can't happen to them. Any creature that grows from a single cell into something more complex *obviously* is affected by time, in one form or another.

For all we know it might take an elf 20,000 years to get a wrinkle, but as far as we know, the world they live in only appears to be half that age.


Affected by time is different than growing. Basically, the detrimental effects humans experience because of aging are brought on by wear and tear. Eventually, your body just gets tired of moving your lazy ass around.

Elves don't have to die from old age if their machinery develops to a certain point and then never fails. And saying that just because it has to develop means that it has to fail is ignorant. We assume that because that is how we work. FYI, human being are far from perfect, which is what elves seem to be, at least physically. Now, elves do have all kinds of flaws, but susceptibility to things that ruin our day doesn't seem to be included in that list.

And, beings are not affected by time. Time does not exist. Time is a measurement we created to mark the passage of our miserably short lives to make us feel better about how long we've been around and what we've done. Don't go claiming something is obvious unless you can take statements that Poe has made about his world that give you a direct If A is B, and B is C, then A is C correlation, or the P,Q,&R example Killjoy gave. And even then, be aware that factors outside of your knowledge may affect that statement.

See, an obvious statement is that something like these discussions will eventually kill Bellofthedamned, because A)God kills a catgirl every time we discuss such matters in relation to Errant Story, B) Bell is a catgirl, and C) There are only so many catgirls. Therefore, eventually, if we continue this foolish, foolish train of thought, Bell is condemned to an untimely fate. How could you do that to her?!?!?! She's a catgirl who reads fantasy webcomics AND puts out on the first date man! The first date! In the grass no less! What's wrong with you?

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Last edited by Sylvarius on Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:27 am 
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^^ Naaah..

Where's Exitialis been during the last gazillion years? I'd like to think he's had a hand in this, somewhere.


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 Post subject: Supremely off-topic post re: this thread's original topic, but it's still important to say this somewhere
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:39 am 
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Killjoy wrote:
Neko7 wrote:


The most interesting comment in that comic is that the paedagogusi don't recognize humans -- "Not a clue, I'm pretty sure they're not any of theirs." It's possible that the pair of gods that created the elves did not, in fact, create humans at all.

Zherical wrote:
Where's Exitialis been during the last gazillion years? I'd like to think he's had a hand in this, somewhere.


I'd like to introduce you and all the other "recent" arrivals to the other twenty-seven pages of threads in this forum. They contain discussion on this and many points discussed in other recent threads. These other pages are the reason why we see the forum veterans gnashing their teeth when people come up with an "amazing new speculative theory," because the likelihood is that it's already been proposed before.

What can you do to reduce the hot gnashing action? Perhaps use the search function (in this instance, a search for exitialis or perhaps visiting the thread for this strip) to see what other people have said on the topic in the past. In reality, there's probably little that can be done because veteran members getting surly at people who repeat old debates seems to be a natural tendency of forums and usenet boards created for the speculative discussion of fiction.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 am 
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This is why we don't get new people lasting very long Vass, you don't have any patience. Because of this I'm going to with-hold your Lap-dancing monies till..... THE FUTURE!

I'd report your post to the admins just to spite you, but I am the admins and I can't be norked enough to do the work needed to do the stuff about the things which I need to do when I report myself to you about you, who is of course myself.

Actor.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:24 am 
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actor_au wrote:
Because of this I'm going to with-hold your Lap-dancing monies till..... THE FUTURE!

Are you blackmailing me? If you are, I will have no choice but to retaliate in kind by informing you that that lap-dancing monies was your christmas present and you don't need to return it.

Do you want that level of shame upon your conscience? That not only did someone else give you money for a lap dance, but they gave it to you as a christmas present. Where's your god now?!?!?!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:48 am 
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Sylvarius wrote:
See, an obvious statement is that something like these discussions will eventually kill Bellofthedamned, because A)God kills a catgirl every time we discuss such matters in relation to Errant Story, B) Bell is a catgirl, and C) There are only so many catgirls. Therefore, eventually, if we continue this foolish, foolish train of thought, Bell is condemned to an untimely fate. How could you do that to her?!?!?! She's a catgirl who reads fantasy webcomics AND puts out on the first date man! The first date! In the grass no less! What's wrong with you?


Damn! I've been found out! *barricades the door before the furrie-haters come*

And you don't have to tell EVERYONE I put out on the first date...just the cute ones.

And this: Re-reading, I think Kawaii was going to say REPLICA not REPLACEMENT, which would...in essence, be the same thing since the gods would rest forever and humans would be replicas of them.

http://www.errantstory.com/archive.php?date=2005-10-07

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Last edited by bellofthedamned on Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:13 am 
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You have four ears. What is up with that?


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