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Should we offer t-shirts as a limited-time pre-order to help raise money to produce the designs?
Yes! I want an actual comic-related t-shirt and will pre-order because I love discounts! 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
No way! Pre-orders suck, and I hate waiting a month after I order! 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
You can offer it, but I'm waiting until the product is in stock. 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
I have no money. 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: How do you feel about pre-orders?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:27 pm 
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So, I've been talking to a lot of different webcomics about how do they afford to create so many new t-shirts. The universal answer is that they take pre-orders.

When we originally started the store, we did the pre-order thing. Except, if we didn't get enough pre-orders, we didn't make the product, and instead issued store credit or when asked an actual refund. That didn't go so well.

We tried taking pre-orders for a product that was GUARANTEED to be produced once we had enough pre-orders... but it's been a year, and while we're still definitely going to produce the product, there's no way we can until we have about three times as many pre-orders as we have now. Or, until we can find a publisher to print it for us.

We also tried not taking pre-orders, and instead just producing the products straight-up. So far, that's worked best, but then we shut the store down for a redesign and upgrade, and we haven't been able to reopen it... so the joy of the release for that item has been rather... spoilt. Plus, now we're in debt.

I have about three or four more designs for t-shirts that I'd like to be able to carry. BUT... the minimum cost to us for producing each new design is around $700, if not more. We can't go further into debt for more products... that's a big nono. So...

How do people feel about time-limited pre-orders? If we went with this system, we would design a product, take pre-orders (with a discount) for 14 days, and make up the difference out of pocket so that the shirts can be sent out within about a month of the first order. However, we'd really NEED people to pre-order during those 14 days, and not everyone checks the store or even the site that often, or has about $21 for shirt and shipping at any given moment. Any product pre-ordered would be guaranteed to be produced, the pre-orders would just allow us to do so a bit faster.

Any input would be appreciated... we want to find the right system that works for you guys and us!

^-^'

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Last edited by Imp-Chan on Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:33 pm 
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Works well for me. As long as I know what I'm ordering is guaranteed to be made and sent (preferably in a timely fashion), then I don't mind paying up-front.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:15 pm 
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I like the idea of a timed pre-order but if you do it I would suggest removing the comic page and putting up a big picture of the product to be and make it WELL known it's new and up for a discounted pre-order.

Anything is better then waiting a year (done with it all. *I'm one of the preorders*) or the shipping snafu that happened with the last t-shirt (souless corporate logo)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:41 pm 
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I would be willing to do limited-time pre-orders if it was a product that I wanted to buy. Knowing I will either get a product or a refund in a reasonable amount of time is nice to know (although, I DID pre-order the Done with it All, and to be honest, I don't ever expect to see it in my hands... honestly, I can't believe there are 600 people willing to pay $60 for even the best single compilation... but I'm getting ahead of myself *cough*).

The main problem with me, though, is that besides the books, I have yet to see a single product that I would want to buy, pre-order or not. Make damn sure people want what you're selling before you even consider a pre-order. (myself, I'd like a simple shirt proclaiming my interest in the comic, not some bizarre inside-inside-catgirl-related joke that isn't even related to the comic) Also, like DK said, prominent advertising is key. I don't think it could save Done with it All, but I bet you'd have more pre-orders if it was, say, somewhere on the front page.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. I've never ran a webcomic business, so I don't know how complicated it is. I just hope you guys figure something out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:36 pm 
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Wark wrote:
The main problem with me, though, is that besides the books, I have yet to see a single product that I would want to buy, pre-order or not.

Same here.

I was also less than impressed over the "Done With It All" stunt that was pulled. Building up all that "Secret Project" hype in the Errant Story forum for a month or so, over something completely unrelated to Errant Story... way to go. There is no guarantee that someone will like a book just because it was made by the same author... I had thought it would be something to be genuinely excited over, and afterwards felt decieved.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:59 pm 
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I know that you feel that was a publicity stunt, Kest, but such wasn't really the intention per se. We just wanted people to know that Rince was working on something else that we thought would be pretty nifty, and by contract we weren't allowed to say word one about the specific project until after a certain deadline. Otherwise, we'd have announced it right off.

Since then, our policy on anything is that we don't talk about it until we're sure we're going to do it, precisely to avoid that same problem.

Now, as for the pricing on Done With It All... it is priced like that because as a small publisher we have no hope of being able to produce it for anything less than $35 per book... cost. And that's for if we print 2000 books. If we want to print less, we still have to spend about the same amount. Over 300 pages of full color does not come cheap.

We thought if there was enough interest in the color edition that we'd have no problem getting enough preorders to cover a very small run... but as it happens, the price has limited a lot of the interest. I did check on pricing before looking into the project, but the people I asked appear not to have been a very good representative sample. And unless we find another way to finance the book (like, say, winning the lottery or something), we can't lower the price.

Done With It All WILL eventually happen, but the best way to make it do so is to find a larger publisher for it, with access to an entirely new market for the story. I am working on that. In the meantime, we've stopped taking pre-orders for it because it's clear that they are not the way to finance the publication for us. The people who have made pre-orders to date will receive their copy of the book autographed (and a bonus gift as a thank-you for their patience) at such time as we are able to see the book produced.

-_-'

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:14 am 
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You've probably answered something of the sort already, but what would it involve to get this stuff in a bookstore? I remember seeing copies of Megatokyo in a Borders, and such things are usually good for picking up new readers that are browsing the shelves.

Although, now that I consider it... Fred lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Borders is a [rather large] chain based in Ann Arbor. Gee.


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 Post subject: Preorders--not a good idea
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:41 pm 
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I don't think pre-orders are a good idea unless one can guarantee a delivery date, or at least a certain window, like software publishers do. If you can't offer that, then you're going to have a lot of people feeling ripped off--for example, like those who originally ordered book 2 of EN, told it wasn't going to come out, got roped into ordering EN-DWiN, and am now waiting on that to come out, some time in the unknown future. Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience...

As one of the others on this forum said, if you can't be sure of a minimum number of buyers, don't offer the merchandise. The only things I've wanted are the books, but at this point I'm not even willing to order those, at least not without some guarantee as to when they'll be sent out. :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:28 am 
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(first time poster)

Would love new shirts, and am happy to pre-order (better you haveing my money for a fortnight than the bank).

Only issue i have with it, shipping to my side of the world (aus) usually costs $10-$15 per order, maybe have timed orders for 2-3 items at the same time, with a small discount per item, and a bigger one if you order the whole lot?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:28 am 
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Darthane wrote:
(first time poster)Would love new shirts, and am happy to pre-order (better you haveing my money for a fortnight than the bank). Only issue i have with it, shipping to my side of the world (aus) usually costs $10-$15 per order(..)


Same issue here. As i'm not a US resident, i would't just pre-order one t-shirt; I'd wait to see 2 or 3 items i don't already own in the store until i'd actually take part to one.

But i like the idea of time-limited pre-orders.
I ordered DWIA together with others items, and while i already received them, I only paid one shipping fee.
this kind of situation isn't good either for the store or for us (you'r not making as much money as you should, as a fan i'm not supporting the comics as much as I intended to, and if i wasn't a fan as a customer it wouldn't feel right to wait a pre-order forever)


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