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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:26 pm 
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So whose interpretation of "moron" would we be following? Mine? mad's? Ezzem's? Yours? Onion's? Impy's?

Having a single rule that states, "Don't be a moron" is incredibly vague that we may as well go back to the set of rules that existed before Grey got banned. Why? Because IT'S THE EXACT SAME SET OF RULES AND LOOK HOW EFFECTIVE THAT WAS. Krylex's idea of a moron was different from that of kyhm's which was different from that of everyone else in the community.

If you want to have one rule that states "Don't be a moron" and then have a hidden list of things that constitute moronitude, then you may as well just ban everyone the moment they join, because they sure don't know what constitutes the kyhm forums definition of moronitude if they haven't been told what it is.

Rules sometimes have to be there to state the blindingly obvious. A solitary "don't be a moron" rule is a lazy approach to operating the forums and so vague as to be completely ineffective in setting a standard for how members of the community should act.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:08 pm 
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madadric wrote:
okay, third rewrite. added a lot more flexibility into the system, and what i think is a fair way to manage/moderate the forums. My thinking behind these rules is that they will hopefully be sufficient for when our community's numbers begin to swell again and a simple "don't be stupid" all-encompassing, horribly defined omni-rule would not work.

The way the system works is, the mods don't really have to step in and do anything unless users start complaining using the report system. This way, it's the users that are the first step of moderation and defining what they want their community to be.

please have a read and continue discussing/modifying.



FORUM GUIDELINES

Here are some behavior guidelines. Note that many of these are just suggestions on how to not call down the forum members' and eventually the moderators and administrators' wrath.

if you annoy the other users enough, they will complain to the mods either via PM, the Meta board, or by reporting your posts.

if you annoy the mods enough, they will nominate you for a probational banning or permanent banning.

after debating your fate, the admins will vote on whether or not you are temporarily banned for a probational period, permanently banned, or that the users and mods are all pussies, and you can carry about your business.

USERS:

things that are annoying. you probably shouldn't do these on a regular basis.

  • low content posts. this is stuff like posting nothing but "lol" as a reply in a thread. how about contributing a little more, huh?
  • table breaking. this is stuff like too many nested quotes and posting overly large images. Anything wider than say, 900 pixels is annoying and you should use the following HTML to shink it down.

    Code:
    <a href="imageurlhere"><img src="imageurlhere" width="900"></a>


    if you don't use these and someone gets annoyed and reports the post, a mod will have to fix it, and the mod will get annoyed with you.
  • flaming other users. A good *zing* every now and then is great, but if all you do is belittle and harass your forum-mates, you'll likely get reported and a mod will *zing* you, with mod powers.
  • being 'creepy' (someone else can come up with the description for this, i don't really care all that much until the line is crossed and personal information is posted.)

things that are bad. doing these will get you in trouble or banned.


  • posting other's personal information without their permission. if you post someone's address, phone number, or details about their personal lives without their permission, you will get banned.
  • posting illegal content. if you post illegal content like underage porn (even if it is of yourself) and a mod finds it, you'll get banned.
  • trolling. if you do it enough, people will get sick of you and keep reporting your posts. if a mod gets sick of your bullshit, you'll get banned.
  • posting NSFW images/content in a safe for work forum. this will get you in trouble, and if you keep it up or the image is bad enough, you'll get banned.

    there are three levels of safe-for-workness, and each forum will have a rating for this. they are: SAFE, TAG, and NSFW. SAFE means no NSFW images or content at all. TAG means you should use the NSFW tag below to hide the content. NSFW means let it all hang out, go on a porn posting blitz!

    Code:
    [nsfw]
    boobs!
    [/nsfw]


    which looks like this:

    [spoiler]
    boobs!
    [/spoiler]

things a user SHOULD do.

  • Be interesting.
  • report posts that don't fall out of the guidelines and annoy you. if you don't report it, then it won't get fixed. Making the users the first step of quality control means that users will shape the quality of the forums.

MODERATORS

Things a mod does.

  • fixes reported posts, and tells the user how they can avoid annoying the users/mods more.
  • forum maintenance, such as locking bad threads, or moving off-topic threads, or moving dead awesome threads to the hall of fame/flame.
  • nominate people that do bad things too much or annoying things waaaayyy too much for probation or banning.

things mods should not do.

  • abuse their powers. (too much) if you feel you have been unfairly dealt with by a mod, make a thread in Meta/Bulletin Board. if you cannot post, either email an admin or use the User Issues submission form located Here. (when we build it.)

ADMINISTRATORS

Things an Adminsitrator does.

  • keep the forums running smoothly etc.
  • implement new features. add extra functionality to the boards, add extra boards as needed/requested.
  • discuss and vote on perma-bans and then banning the offenders.
  • answer user issues that cannot be addressed by moderators, such as lost password emails and such.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:23 pm 
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Vass wrote:
Rules sometimes have to be there to state the blindingly obvious.

Very well.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:12 am 
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Another thing users should do, when another user is being annoying, is to calmly and kindly refer them to the exhaustive list of things that are annoying, with the hope that the offending user is a sensible person and will take their advice as an indication of collaboration and harmony.

Unless this is impossible.

Being "creepy" should include things like:
Harrassing particular people at length and against their fully expressed wishes, especially when out of context.
Discussing private conversations or pms publicly without the other party's notice.
Talking about girls who we know or who are far too youthful, in excess.
*pouncing*, *glomping*, and *tickling* in forum posts ever it is creepy.

These occur to me first I ask for more input.
I will give extra thought to the guide for the noobs as well.

Everything else looks finely excogitated, good sirs. Carry on!

P.S. you just said very well, but seriously you need at least indications of rules, nobody on the internet wants to mold every noob into a sensible poster. it takes too much time and effort.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:35 am 
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http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-r ... -rules.php

(no seriously, why write up a rule-system when we can pillage a perfectly fine one?)

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 Post subject: although the file size limits are more of a guideline than a rule in my book
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:46 am 
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Ezelek wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-rules/forum-rules.php

(no seriously, why write up a rule-system when we can pillage a perfectly fine one?)

All those seem rather reasonable.


Last edited by Kest on Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:47 am 
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I shall do so. Fair use, right?

Uhm, I propose that we remove all of the smily faces and emoticons, they are terrible. We forum people are usually rather smart, and have a fairly high competancy in English, on average. I believe that the removal or limitation of the emoticons will encourage good readin' and wrotin' skillz, and a more enjoyable reading experience.

Quote:
<Kest>PS. Spools i suggest adding "overuse of emoticons" to your lsit of creepy
<Spools> no that should be on the list of annoying, becasue emoticons are vague, meaningless, and usually innappropriate.
<Spools> I wouldn't mind dumping all of them anyway.
<Spools> use your words, people.
<Ezelek> emoticons are awesome stop having :downs:
* Kest cannot stop
<Spools> language. you can express your emotions with language. you do not need illustrations as a surrugate to actual conversant facial tics.
<Ezelek> how about a surrogate one
<Spools> that might work too why are you guys picking on me
<Kest> some people cant pick up on sarcasm or such things without emoticons like ":p" though
<Kest> for this i hate them
<Spools> We shall mold them to our will.
<Spools> I shall write a code of not being stupids that explains common phrases that indicate sarcasm.
<Ezelek> Language is not based simply on words. It's also based on expressions and inflection. That is why I need a :colbert: emoticon
<Kest>also body language
<Kest> you could type out a lot to compensate, but it'd be a lot
<Ezelek> *folds arms*
<Kest> ¿?
<Spools> written communications have flourished for thousands of years and scholars have yet to question whther all of plato's works are a big joke becasue no one can tell if maybe he was writing them with a big giant grin on his face.
<Kest> heh

Yes, this is selective editing, and I am proud of it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:52 am 
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:psyduck: :smith: FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS :gonk: :argh:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:53 am 
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I'LL DO IT, TOO. I HOPE YOU HAVE A WILL MADE OUT.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:54 am 
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:smith:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:55 am 
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Ezelek wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-rules/forum-rules.php

(no seriously, why write up a rule-system when we can pillage a perfectly fine one?)

Cos kyhm forums is not something awful and therefore copy pasta'ing their rules would lead to us having rules that may be irrelevant to our situation and/or rules that are excessive to what we desire? (Actually, I didn't know where the SA rules were hidden so I didn't go looking for them so as to steal ideas from them. I only {vaguely} know where the megatokyo rules are and they're pretty terrible.) Tho I do support the idea of stealing ideas from other people's rules.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:01 am 
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Vass wrote:
Cos kyhm forums is not something awful

:V oh yes it is. (badoom-psh)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:21 am 
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Spools wrote:
I shall do so. Fair use, right?

Uhm, I propose that we remove all of the smily faces and emoticons, they are terrible. We forum people are usually rather smart, and have a fairly high competancy in English, on average. I believe that the removal or limitation of the emoticons will encourage good readin' and wrotin' skillz, and a more enjoyable reading experience.

Quote:
<Kest>PS. Spools i suggest adding "overuse of emoticons" to your lsit of creepy

Yes, this is selective editing, and I am proud of it.

I was half-joking you know. but that is also half serious~

Vass wrote:
Ezelek wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-rules/forum-rules.php

(no seriously, why write up a rule-system when we can pillage a perfectly fine one?)

Cos kyhm forums is not something awful and therefore copy pasta'ing their rules would lead to us having rules that may be irrelevant to our situation and/or rules that are excessive to what we desire?

yeah it looks as though we would be deleting one entire line


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:28 am 
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Well, let's have a look-see at them ol' SA rules.

Quote:
General Conduct
Lurk before posting! We cannot stress this enough. Each forum pretty much makes it clear from its name and description what is acceptable in there or not. Be sure you have the appropriate forum before posting. If there is no forum dedicated to the topic you wish to discuss, use General Bullshit. Do NOT post porn or any "questionable" material in GBS; if you would be uncomfortable viewing it at work, do not post it there. Keep all disgusting pics in FYAD. Additionally, please check to see if your post is a redux (it has already been posted before by another forum member).

Before you post: Before posting, please ask yourself the following question: "Am I making a post which is either funny, informative, or interesting on any level?"

If you can answer "yes" to this, then please post. If you cannot, then refrain from posting.

Before you reply: Before replying, please ask yourself the following question: "Does my reply offer any significant advice or help contribute to the conversation in any fashion?"

If you can answer "yes" to this, then please reply. If you cannot, then refrain from replying.


Obviously, the specific references to GBS, FYAD, etc., don't apply, but it seems generally in keeping with the idea of having some forums NSFW and some SFW that's been tossed around. The admonitions to lurk more and not post stupid garbage seem to be pretty good guidelines.

Quote:
Posting Rules
Low Content Posts: Please do not make posts containing no content (ie, "first post," any catchphrase, "hello, I'm new here," or something else completely void of meaning). These just litter up the forums and with over 90,000 registered users, we need to eliminate these as much as possible. If you do not like a thread, then just vote it a "1" and move on; replies consisting solely of trolling fall into this category.


This would proabably obliterate about 90% of the posts in Unrelated... but probably for the best.

Quote:
Worthless Posts: We do not care if you are drunk or high; please do not inform us of either. Please do not register gimmick accounts and make posts as a gimmick, as they are not funny. Please do not post crap asking us to vote for you on some website, give you referrals for free iPods / flatscreens / spare tires, or any other semi-spam things.


The few gimmick accounts we have seem pretty restrained, but not linking dumb pyramid schemes or posting about how drunk you are seem pretty reasonable.

Quote:
Forum Fuckery: Don't fuck up the forums or any user on the forums. If you post a malicious link (any URL with spyware or code designed to annoy people) you will be banned. Do not vote spam a thread with your friends because you don't like the person who posted it; this makes the voting feature useless. Do not make plans to annoy / destroy other forums.


Fair enough.

Quote:
Stay On Target: Try to use the appropriate thread tag for your post. This helps people find your thread and makes the forums more user friendly. Do not use the mod-only tags or you will be autobanned by the server.


No thread tags here, so not really applicable.

Quote:
Contained Conflict: Keep all flamewars and other arguments in FYAD.


I guess this is out of date since there's Helldump now, but it poses an interesting question: do we want a forum where the rules are relaxed, like FYAD? Do we want a Helldump? Right now #en more or less serves as our Helldump. Is this a good thing?

Quote:
Respect the Mods and Writers: The moderators are here to keep the forums safe, sane, and secure. Please do not harass or intentionally annoy the mods or insult the front page writers. If they ask you to do something, please do it. If you do not like the mods or the moderation, feel free to not post here.


well duh

Quote:
Harass and Sass: If somebody is harassing you on the forums then discuss it with them over PM or email before contacting a mod about it. Flames and insults do not constitute harassment. Please do not post others' personal information (phone number, addresses, emails, etc.). Try to stay out of other peoples' personal lives as well. Keep in mind there's a good distinction between the Internet and real life.


equally duh

Quote:
Account Ability: Only one person may use a forum account. Account sharing is a bannable offense, so please keep your password secure.


Since accounts here are free, and any schumck can get one at a moment's notice, we don't really need thhis one.

Quote:
Crazy Catchall: Please do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.


Fair enough.

Quote:
FYAD Freedoms: You cannot post illegal material, harass others by posting their personal information or nude photos, spam thread subject lines to break the forum tables, harass any admins or mods, or start forum invasions in FYAD.


See above comments Re: FYAD.

Quote:
I Hate Speech: Offensive terms such as "faggot" or "nigger" may or may not be bannable based on context of the sentence. If they were meant as humor with absolutely no offensive slurs meant, the user may not be banned or probated. This rule is completely, 100% subjective and is based on the mod reading the post at the time. Use at your own peril.


Do we want to make this more harsh? Less harsh? I dunno. I've reprimanded people in The Forum Formerly Known as the Midlands for this kind of thing before, and would probably ban if it became a problem, but I'm not sure what our forum-wide policy ont his ought to be.

Quote:
Keep all images work-safe. If you feel the need to post any pornographic or disgusting images, do it in FYAD. Please do not post any illegal (child porn, bestiality) images or else you will be banned. As a general rule, ask yourself "would my mother and boss be comfortable viewing this image?" when posting outside of FYAD.

Image size and linking. Keep all images smaller than 800 pixels horizontal and 600 pixels vertical. Make sure all images are hosted on your own webspace. We do not approve of bandwidth leeching and forcing other people to pay for your images.

No warez. No warez, no cracks, no CD codes, no illegal programs that are used to either crack software or perform any malicious activity. Don't post links, ask for links to download, or otherwise discuss illegal copies of copyrighted works, including movies, books, software, etc. 45-second "sampler" mp3 files are acceptable, within context. ROMs are only allowed if they are out-of-print and unavailable for purchase.

Your sig file and you. Keep in mind that everybody on the forums has to see your sig file over and over every time you post. Please make your sig file under 30k in size with less than three lines of text. Do not use images larger than 400 pixels wide and 125 pixels high.


Except for the bit on work-safe-ness these all seem pretty fair. Some people here havve giant goddamn signatures, but all of those signatures are pretty dumb. Do we really need "CULT OF PERVERSION LOL" everywhere?

Quote:
What If I Get Banned?
If you break a semi-minor rule, you will be put on Posting Probation, where you will not be allowed to post threads for a specified amount of time. If you break the rules again after being put on probation, you will more than likely be banned. If you are banned, then your name will appear in the Leper's Colony followed by the rule you broke. You may re-register your account unless you have been perma-banned, which is rarely done and only for serious cases (such as child pornography). If your email account matches that of your banned account, you can register your account again, but if they do not match then there is nothing we can do. This is to prevent fraud and user impersonation.


Since we don't charge for accounts, I assume that every ban is a permaban. Do we want probation? I'm pretty sure the new mod panel thing supports it.

Quote:
I Don't Agree With a Mod or Admin Decision!
If you would like to inquire about a particular mod or admin action, we welcome any questions in the Questions, Comments, and Suggestions forum. Please be civil, explain your point, and detail your opinion on it. You may question any mod or admin you like as long as you are not rude about it.


This seems fairly key. There should be some sort of venue to question, appeal, or seek clarification on moderation decisions.

All in all, despite the huge disparity in size and structure between Kyhm's and SA, these rules seem general enough that most of them could apply anywhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:04 am 
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RMG wrote:
FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS :argh:


this :argh: always makes me laugh. it has almost always, from what I have seen (or IMHO), been used in the proper context and, as a result, led to some amusing posts.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:33 pm 
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We should have a one catcvhall thread in which you are welcome to explain your current state of intoxication, I know I'd use it.

The sig limit is a good idea, even though we are lucky to have a "disable signitures" account prefernce setting, there are times when one is on an airport pay for time internet and can't log in. Plus signatures are usually pretty stupids.

Hate speech isn't used very much around here, and I'd like to keep it that way. Flat out rule might be good.

Honestly, a one-emoticon per post would be a good guideline. If you're punctuating every sentence with a little drawing you probably shouldn't be writing anything anyway. Using a string of three or four only serves to obscure y our meaning even further, I disapprove of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:38 am 
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My opinions:

1) I have no problems whatsoever with emoticons, even though I use one every 100 posts or so. Suggestion:
Code:
Emoticons are like spices, they may give flavor to your posts, but too many is just disgusting


2) I'm content with the suggested moderation format.

3) What about a NSFW thread in a SFW forum? Example: a debate about the differences between real porn and hentai (can't be arsed to find the link).

4) Child pornography and bestiality are a big no-no, but due we really have to outlaw copyrighted material? Yes, I'm serious.

5) As for the forums:
we should merge the game board with roleplay;
rename unrelated and leave it at that;
a serious discussion forum is a must, whatever it might be called;
and I don't think we need to have the word 'stoat' in the name of ANY forum.

6) I don't think that a front page for the forum is a necessity, but it would sure be nice (and if it won't be, I'll chnge my bookmark to the forum itself).

7) We need fresh blood. The only idea I have for this problem is to generate content. By generate I mean 'compose', 'draw', 'write', 'animate' etc. These creations could be placed at the front page.

8) At the beginning, Kyhm's whas a 'fan community', because almost all members were fans of ES, EN and Midlands. However, as time passed, this had changed. Now we (or at least I) can't even describe the forum. The change I described in paragraph #7 would change our status to an 'arts community'. This is not what the natives will think about the community, but how the new blood would regard us. Do we want to be labeled as 'an eccentric artist's haven'? Do we want not to?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:18 am 
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Ezelek wrote:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-rules/forum-rules.php

(no seriously, why write up a rule-system when we can pillage a perfectly fine one?)


madadric wrote:

i'll start with user guidelines, and rip off SA with a few modifications.



i started with that, and they were considered too harsh at the time. i'm glad we're still discussing it though.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:18 am 
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Emoticons are like spices, they may give flavor to your posts, but too many is just disgusting

This is seriously the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. Controlling content like SFW in SFW, and no NSFW in SFW is one thing, but then putting limitations on how that content is delivered? Jesus fuck mother of christ. In this context, I demand that we hereforth only post in latin, because it is the mother tongue and root of the majority of languages that we use. I don't have any other reason except that I think english words are dumb, and so are french words, german words, and any other word that you are thinking right now. That word is DUMB. Unless it is latin, in which case it is plumbeus :science:


Quote:
3) What about a NSFW thread in a SFW forum? Example: a debate about the differences between real porn and hentai (can't be arsed to find the link).

Again, and I'm sorry for using your post to pull apart these concepts, GR, but since it was at the top: That wasn't really a debate, but even so, you could have it in a SFW forum. There's no reason to actually provide imbedded imagery of a dog fucking a lady or anything, and as long as you tag your links/source as NSFW, then it's fine. Of course, you'd need to use some kind of :nsfw: emoticon for that, and emoticons are dumb and should never be used ever. wait.


Quote:
4) Child pornography and bestiality are a big no-no, but due we really have to outlaw copyrighted material? Yes, I'm serious.

Posting/providing access to copyrighted material can land us in shit. You're old enough to use a computer, I'll assume you're old enough to find "Debbie Does Dallas X" without me handing it to you. As far as being sensible goes, it's something we should be doing already.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:15 am 
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Gazing Rabbit wrote:
1) I have no problems whatsoever with emoticons, even though I use one every 100 posts or so.

Blargh. Leave the joke alone. It's not a policy we'd bother enforcing anyways, seeing as you can post images.

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3) What about a NSFW thread in a SFW forum?

What is this about? It makes no sense to me, seems very random.

5) As for the forums:
we should merge the game board with roleplay;
rename unrelated and leave it at that;
a serious discussion forum is a must

Blargh! Leaving it at that is simply lazy - the place is a mess.

*rest of the post*

::huh?::


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