ZOMBIE FORUMS :: View topic - Japan's drop box for unwanted babies

onion wrote:

Nevada-Tan

*unzips*

Yorik wrote:

onion wrote:

Nevada-Tan

*unzips*

Yeah.

Okay.

Thanks for joining in with the discussion.

It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea

Drop-off boxes for babies? What's next -- an overnight deposit for your elderly relatives you just can't look after?

I'm mostly against this, and I sincerely hope the Japanese people will find their sense of moral outrage and put a stop to it. Implement some probably needless parental policing programs, have drop-in visits on new parents to make sure they can handle, have whatever stops you from having a baby drop-box.

onion wrote:

Speaking as someone who actually lives over here and knows the culture...

It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea

Yes, because the equivalent acts of anonymously dropping off babies and even older children on the steps of orphanages, churches and other places that are known to take them in and look after them never happened in the West. Also, please note that the hospital in question is a Christian hospital (i.e., run by or affiliated with a Western church).

Speaking as someone who actually lives over here and knows the culture...

onion wrote:

It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea

bellofthedamned wrote:

Absolutely, because abandonment and other forms of parental irresponsibility and abuse happen so much less in the West. :-?

Seriously, where do people get off subjectively ragging about "moral outrages" in other countries when similar or worse things are happening in their own?

At any rate, it is a solely Japanese issue, and you can rest assured that the Japanese people and media are scrutinizing and debating it in enough depth that there is really no need for proxy soul-searching by holier-than-thou foreigners.

I think diamonds should move aside --- the baby drop-box is a girl's best friend.

lots of trying to shoot down peoples comments

The box is a good idea, but I think it could be seriously improved, I mean what about the babie's health records, name, birth certificate(I dont know if japan does that i'm just guessing). I would think that there would be someone to take basic information because what happens if the baby is allergic to penisilen and for some reason it gets injected with it, no medical records and bam deada baby.

I dunno, I hope I contributed an idea.

Kaz*CheesyDoritoBomb* wrote:

I imagine that the inclusion of such vital information may very likely be a prerequisite for using the drop-off point. However, I also assume that the medical information of said child can conceivably be looked up via his/her footprint, though that's only if identification via footprint is practice used in Japan. However, that particular method was in 1988 proven woefully inadequate in actually identifying infants in such a manner by 89%, if I'm not mistaken, though that could easily be due to the fact that hospital personnel simply aren't as good at taking prints as your typical forensics law-enforcement officer. Of course, hospital staff could be a good deal more skilled at it by now.

Fingerprinting is a possibility, but I imagine that's just as difficult if not more so, as tiny as your average infant's fingertips are. There's also DNA genotyping, but that's ludicrously expensive and time-consuming.

Author:	onion [ Fri May 25, 2007 2:06 pm ]
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I suppose I'm just wary to judge anyone who would abandon a child. Of course individuals do exist in society who are exactly the kind of people who are capable of callously and thoughtlessly abusing and misstreating their children - I've been associated with any number of people who have either been the purpotrators or victims of such actions - but without firther information of on the situation of the family ivolved it's difficult to call down a judgement. Of course it's possible that this was merely a heartless action. It's possible that the father of the child saw a convinient out from unwanted parental responsibility and acted selfishly. But it's also possible that this was an action taken for entirely different and far more complex reasons than simply 'bad parenting'. Who knows? The fact is that if you're correct and this was simply an act of selfish asshattery the guy needs a short and violent instructional course on what it means to be man. But what if you're not? How do you pass judgement on any situtation when you don't know so few of the details?

Author:	Gias [ Fri May 25, 2007 2:25 pm ]
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I must concede to your point of view on this. I am, perhaps, a touch too sensitive to potential child abandonment and/or abuse, considering the sheer number of nephews and nieces I have and a woefully idiotic sister who's significant other I very much desire to do extraordinarily unpleasant things to, as he's made me, as of late, quite a touch more venomous than I usually am. You could say that I too, have born witness to such... unpleasantness. Perhaps it was such a case for this man as you suggest, having had no choice but to give up his child... An anonymous yet perfectly safe drop off does seem as if it would be less... painful, than approaching the japanese equivalent of a child services office/orphanage or what have you. Really, for such a person who is forced to undertake such an action, who can truly say what would drive them to come to such an agonizing conclusion? In any case, I must admit that I find myself quite interested in learning any more particulars of this case... though from what I understand of japanese media, the very particulars that I am interested in, i.e. the motivation of such an individual, may very well be withheld from the news in order to protect the identity of the child involved.

Author:	onion [ Fri May 25, 2007 3:12 pm ]
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I fear you may be right with that last point. The japanese media certainly seems to be more restricted in it's regard to minors than the west is. For example look at the case of Nevada-Tan - not even internet detectives can find anything regarding her true identity save for a few grainy pictures that in many cases may not even be her. I have a feeling that this case may remain somewhat of mystery.

Author:	Yorik [ Fri May 25, 2007 3:57 pm ]
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onion wrote: Nevada-Tan unzips

Author:	onion [ Fri May 25, 2007 5:07 pm ]
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Yorik wrote: onion wrote: Nevada-Tan unzips Yeah. Okay. Thanks for joining in with the discussion. Your input has not been appreciated.

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Japan's drop box for unwanted babies http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10330	Page 2 of 3

Author:	Psycojes [ Fri May 25, 2007 5:58 pm ]
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My issues are this "I was going to put my kid up for adoption because I'm such a waste of life but I don't feel like doing all that paperwork so I'll just put the baby in a drop box" "I'm a catholic priest and an old Japanese man, theres no way I'de be a pedophile so please drop off your newborns here where no one will ever miss them. I wont abuse them, promise"

Author:	bellofthedamned [ Fri May 25, 2007 7:21 pm ]
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On one hand, it is a genuine way to stop people from creating "dumpster babies". If you had a place you knew your unwanted baby would be cared for, it'd be a lot better than throwing it away in some dark alley for it to die. However, one would have to worry that it is an encouragement of giving away your baby -- an easy out. How many people will come back begging to have their child again? On the other hand, it seems like an abomination. Drop-off boxes for babies? What's next -- an overnight deposit for your elderly relatives you just can't look after? It's like some futuristic horror movie playing out in real life where babies are just dropped off in boxes and shipped to godknowswhere. How about when the kid grows up and finds out he was a "drop-box baby"? That his mother and/or father didn't want him so badly, they couldn't be bothered with child services and instead dropped him in a box. I'm mostly against this, and I sincerely hope the Japanese people will find their sense of moral outrage and put a stop to it. Implement some probably needless parental policing programs, have drop-in visits on new parents to make sure they can handle, have whatever stops you from having a baby drop-box.

Author:	Yorik [ Fri May 25, 2007 11:43 pm ]
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onion wrote: Yorik wrote: onion wrote: Nevada-Tan unzips Yeah. Okay. Thanks for joining in with the discussion. No problem.

Author:	KirimaNagi [ Sat May 26, 2007 12:13 am ]
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Speaking as someone who actually lives over here and knows the culture... onion wrote: It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea Yes, because the equivalent acts of anonymously dropping off babies and even older children on the steps of orphanages, churches and other places that are known to take them in and look after them never happened in the West. Also, please note that the hospital in question is a Christian hospital (i.e., run by or affiliated with a Western church). bellofthedamned wrote: Drop-off boxes for babies? What's next -- an overnight deposit for your elderly relatives you just can't look after? Hm... you might want to see what you can find on the subject of "Obasute-yama" (literally: "grandmother-discard-mountain").* Oh, wait- damn... Sparta. Looks like the West beat Japan to that, too. * This is from a few hundred years ago, and is of course no longer practiced today, but given Japan's severely aging population and low birth rate, barring mass immigration (heh) or import of elderly care staff, you never know... bellofthedamned wrote: I'm mostly against this, and I sincerely hope the Japanese people will find their sense of moral outrage and put a stop to it. Implement some probably needless parental policing programs, have drop-in visits on new parents to make sure they can handle, have whatever stops you from having a baby drop-box. Absolutely, because abandonment and other forms of parental irresponsibility and abuse happen so much less in the West. Seriously, where do people get off subjectively ragging about "moral outrages" in other countries when similar or worse things are happening in their own? sigh Sarcasm aside, I am against the abandonment of older children such as the toddler in the story, and think that the father/family should be found and at the very least receive counseling, if not punishment. However, I have mixed feelings about the box itself, since it has both the potential for abuse and also the potential to save lives. (Just like so many things in this little world of ours) I would probably have to say I lean in favor of it since given the culture and the people, it will probably be used more responsibly and sparingly than in just about any other country in the world. At any rate, it is a solely Japanese issue, and you can rest assured that the Japanese people and media are scrutinizing and debating it in enough depth that there is really no need for proxy soul-searching by holier-than-thou foreigners.

Author:	onion [ Sat May 26, 2007 2:14 am ]
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KirimaNagi wrote: onion wrote: Speaking as someone who actually lives over here and knows the culture... It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea Yes, because the equivalent acts of anonymously dropping off babies and even older children on the steps of orphanages, churches and other places that are known to take them in and look after them never happened in the West. Also, please note that the hospital in question is a Christian hospital (i.e., run by or affiliated with a Western church). The context I meant this in was not 'OH LOL JAPAN IS WEIRD'. What I was getting at is that the practicle, sensible no fuss approach to the issue at hand seems to be handled with a deffinitively more eastern approach than say, it would be in the west where there would in all likelyhood, be far more moral uproar at the very idea of it. Over here we would have heard about this idea when it was picketed by local crazies at the very begining, before the box had been installed and well before anyone ever got the chance to drop off any sort of child in it. And to clarify, I'm not saying that's because we're so much more morally superior in the west. It's because we're culturally different. I'm certainly not being 'holier than thou'. True, I don't understand the culture as well as you might but I hardly think that name calling is particularly useful in this situation. If you want to make a point maybe you should try approaching your topic without sarcasm and personal attacks. I don't believe at any point I stated that child abandonment doesn't happen outside of Japan. I don't in fact believe I made comparisons of the two. Perhaps if you want to call anyone holier than thou you might want to look at yourself and the preaching you appear to be doing to people who actually only want to understand the situation better. How about next time you actually try to explain rather than making a lot of :rolleyes: replies to quotes and name calling.

Author:	Gwyon [ Sat May 26, 2007 1:31 pm ]
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KirimaNagi wrote: Speaking as someone who actually lives over here and knows the culture... onion wrote: It's deffinitely a completely japanese idea Yes, because the equivalent acts of anonymously dropping off babies and even older children on the steps of orphanages, churches and other places that are known to take them in and look after them never happened in the West. Also, please note that the hospital in question is a Christian hospital (i.e., run by or affiliated with a Western church). bellofthedamned wrote: I'm mostly against this, and I sincerely hope the Japanese people will find their sense of moral outrage and put a stop to it. Implement some probably needless parental policing programs, have drop-in visits on new parents to make sure they can handle, have whatever stops you from having a baby drop-box. Absolutely, because abandonment and other forms of parental irresponsibility and abuse happen so much less in the West. Seriously, where do people get off subjectively ragging about "moral outrages" in other countries when similar or worse things are happening in their own? All right, you seem to be arguing that the Western world is equally guilty of the kind of moral lassitude that some think is necessary to conceive of such a device, and that abandonment of children is just as common if not more so in Western society than it is in Japan. Correct me if I misunderstood anything. KirimaNagi wrote: At any rate, it is a solely Japanese issue, and you can rest assured that the Japanese people and media are scrutinizing and debating it in enough depth that there is really no need for proxy soul-searching by holier-than-thou foreigners. Wait, what? Have you forgotten that in the earlier portion of your post, you deny at length Onion's statement that "it's definitely a completely japanese idea"? By what stretch of the imagination do you propose the 'baby drop box' to be something relevant only to the Japanese, given your own claims about similar causative conditions in Western culture? "Because they actually implemented it before anyone else did" is not a valid answer. If the reasons behind the implementation of this concept exist in our own countries, I think that gives us more than enough reasons to debate it's validity. Really, there's no reason to be so rude and angry if you're just going to contradict yourself.

Author:	Rusty [ Sat May 26, 2007 2:30 pm ]
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bellofthedamned wrote: I think diamonds should move aside --- the baby drop-box is a girl's best friend. For some reason, I saw this when I read that. I smirked.

Author:	KazCheesyDoritoBomb [ Sat May 26, 2007 8:01 pm ]
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KirimaNagi wrote: lots of trying to shoot down peoples comments Ya okay bud. But really the 'question' of whether this is a 'Japanese Idea' is stupid. While I can't say what onion meant, how I took it was that only Japan would have the type of (in my view) rediculously shamed based culture that a baby drop-box would be concieved, first. Anyway... The box is a good idea, but I think it could be seriously improved, I mean what about the babie's health records, name, birth certificate(I dont know if japan does that i'm just guessing). I would think that there would be someone to take basic information because what happens if the baby is allergic to penisilen and for some reason it gets injected with it, no medical records and bam deada baby. I dunno, I hope I contributed an idea.

Author:	Yorik [ Sat May 26, 2007 11:02 pm ]
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It's not like babies are born carrying a list of their allergies with them.

Author:	Spools [ Sun May 27, 2007 12:49 pm ]
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Edit: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1572569.ece[/url]

Author:	Gias [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:01 am ]
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Spools wrote: Edit: A link ...... Ah, I've missed this sensation. The sensation of my faith in the rest of humanity dropping at terminal velocity to leave an impact crater the size of a lake. Though to be fair, it hasn't been more than knee-high at best for the past ten years or so.

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Author:	Gias [ Sun May 27, 2007 12:41 am ]
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KazCheesyDoritoBomb wrote: The box is a good idea, but I think it could be seriously improved, I mean what about the babie's health records, name, birth certificate(I dont know if japan does that i'm just guessing). I would think that there would be someone to take basic information because what happens if the baby is allergic to penisilen and for some reason it gets injected with it, no medical records and bam deada baby. I dunno, I hope I contributed an idea. I imagine that the inclusion of such vital information may very likely be a prerequisite for using the drop-off point. However, I also assume that the medical information of said child can conceivably be looked up via his/her footprint, though that's only if identification via footprint is practice used in Japan. However, that particular method was in 1988 proven woefully inadequate in actually identifying infants in such a manner by 89%, if I'm not mistaken, though that could easily be due to the fact that hospital personnel simply aren't as good at taking prints as your typical forensics law-enforcement officer. Of course, hospital staff could be a good deal more skilled at it by now. Fingerprinting is a possibility, but I imagine that's just as difficult if not more so, as tiny as your average infant's fingertips are. There's also DNA genotyping, but that's ludicrously expensive and time-consuming.

Author:	Clay_Allison [ Sun May 27, 2007 5:59 am ]
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Gias wrote: KazCheesyDoritoBomb wrote: The box is a good idea, but I think it could be seriously improved, I mean what about the babie's health records, name, birth certificate(I dont know if japan does that i'm just guessing). I would think that there would be someone to take basic information because what happens if the baby is allergic to penisilen and for some reason it gets injected with it, no medical records and bam deada baby. I dunno, I hope I contributed an idea. I imagine that the inclusion of such vital information may very likely be a prerequisite for using the drop-off point. However, I also assume that the medical information of said child can conceivably be looked up via his/her footprint, though that's only if identification via footprint is practice used in Japan. However, that particular method was in 1988 proven woefully inadequate in actually identifying infants in such a manner by 89%, if I'm not mistaken, though that could easily be due to the fact that hospital personnel simply aren't as good at taking prints as your typical forensics law-enforcement officer. Of course, hospital staff could be a good deal more skilled at it by now. Fingerprinting is a possibility, but I imagine that's just as difficult if not more so, as tiny as your average infant's fingertips are. There's also DNA genotyping, but that's ludicrously expensive and time-consuming. I hope we can come up with better scanning and recognition software now than nearly 20 years ago.

Author:	Vass [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:13 am ]
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I lolled at the creepy christian comments that people have appended to that article.

Author:	actor_au [ Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:59 pm ]
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I need a girlfriend in Japan so I can use this facility. Failing that I'll get some old Cabbage Patch Dolls and test just how lifelike they really are. Actor.