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 Post subject: Porn king offers $1m for US political sex scandal
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:08 pm 
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Capitalism at its best. If your congressman isn't paying you enough to stay quite, simply go to someone who pays more for the same service.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2094699,00.html

While this is a good way to end a congressman saying one thing and doing another, I'm wondering if offering money to have people tell what happened in the privacy of a bedroom is moral. Seems almost like posting naked pictures of your Ex-whatever online.

While this is most likely very legal, and very worth the money, is it something that we really, as a rule, should have people doing?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:46 pm 
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No, it's almost despicable. Take down the Republican party by exposing their sex scandals. I know they stand, mostly, for consertavisim and speak out against said scandalous behavior, but they're representatitves of an ideology -- no one is truly held to their standards. Besides that fact, some of these people may have had scandals before marriage and children, and how will this news stand to hurt their families? Learning Daddy had his hand in the MALE cookie jar once in college and didn't really go that far, but just wanted to try it out, could devastate a family.

Sometimes, men are far removed from their deeds. Think back. Are you still representative of your actions from 10 years ago? 20?

We all make stupid mistakes, let's not give power to those mistakes to ruin our whole lives.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:05 pm 
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True, but as someone who has yet been held resonsible for any of his actions, I do want to belive that the choices you make ought to affect things. If you don't want something like that to ruin your life, you should not do something that could ruin your life if it was found out.

While the past 'you' is different from the 'now you', should you not tell the wife of a man that her husband is cheating on her, because it might cause problems in the family? Should you hide the affair, so it doesn't make the child go through a divorce? Is that the same thing as finding out he HAD an affair, and its no longer going on? Would that really change anything, that it did happen, or that it IS happening?

And if you do do something, and with another person, you ought to be ready for it to be public one day. You can't really trust anyone, and they may change their minds in 10 or 20 years, when they are 'different' people.

I don't have a problem with people who had sex with famouse people coming foward, its their right to do so, if a bit immoral in ways I can understand, but the money is what gives me a pause. It almost would make some people to try and have sex with congressman so they can grab the easy million.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:13 pm 
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I don't feel that someone who has moved far beyond what they once were should be held to actions of their distant past.

However, if someone is banging a congressman in the present, hey, go tell it on the mountain. If you make a mil, then well, Congressman McSlutbag should have thought of that before he let you in his pants.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:35 pm 
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Rubber Band Man wrote:
I don't have a problem with people who had sex with famouse people coming foward, its their right to do so, if a bit immoral in ways I can understand, but the money is what gives me a pause. It almost would make some people to try and have sex with congressman so they can grab the easy million.

Well, shoud not the congressmen be considering that when they are picking up hookers?

Like a lot of people, I'm looking forward, probably between two and four years in the future, to finding out who Jeff Gannon/Guckart's sugar daddy was in the White House.

An additional problem: speculation drifts through the blogosphere as why there are so many closeted gay men in the conservative Washington power structure--per the background chatter, Congressman Mark Foley and RNC Chair Ken Mehlmen were just two of many. One of the reasons offered is that these men are easy to keep in line. This is true regardless of whether or not they are gaining companionship illegally (Foley was, but, AFAIK, Mehlmen was not). If they turn on their fellow fellow power brokers for any reason, their careers can be destroyed with a single rumor. No political muscle would be necessary, just an unrefutable story in a newspaper.

The same thing applies, in principle, to heterosexual males committing adultery and prostitution. They set themselves up for overt or subtle blackmail. Their only protection is the sanctity of the Old Boys Network.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:37 pm 
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something smells fishy here
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you heard it here first folks. the driving force behind US politics is the illuminati's shadowy campaign of secretly installing gay men in office because they are easy to control.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:59 pm 
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cakewalk wrote:
the driving force behind US politics is the illuminati's shadowy campaign of secretly installing gay men in office because they are easy to control.

cakewalk said it on the internets so it must be true!

But really, I think all this shit about sex scandals is stupid. I mean really what does an old foggey have to do to get sex? Evidentally buy it, while illegal a lot of people do it the same way. Just let old men get their last kicks before they die.


Unless of course they are seducing children, that is a different topic though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:20 pm 
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they're politicians.


who cares?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:58 am 
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The problem, I think, lies more in the position rather than the person. It would be like a police officer snorting cocaine -- he's supposed to be above that, to be held to the law.

In the same way, politicians are held to social mores and bound to a cross they bear by seeking their positions. Politicians seek their positions, knowing what is expected. When it goes to their heads and they start fucking it up -- it's their fault. They've betrayed every person who voted for them. They stood up and said, "I can do this job," but falls from grace say, "I lied, so I could have this power."

If some cheap whore makes a mint off getting a little Dick, or maybe a little Bush, then that cheap whore deserves her mint. She didn't rape the VP/Prez. And exposing these politicians for the liars they are is fine by me. When they sought the office, they made a promise to be above hookers, drugs, bribes, and scandal. If they can't stay above it, they lied. And liars go to Hell -- Leviticus 12:4.

(btw, I made that verse up, but you were really about to go check the Bible, weren't you? Hell, even I almost went and checked on the off-chance it was serendipitiously true.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:01 am 
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finalcarrots wrote:
The problem, I think, lies more in the position rather than the person. It would be like a police officer snorting cocaine -- he's supposed to be above that, to be held to the law.

In the same way, politicians are held to social mores and bound to a cross they bear by seeking their positions. Politicians seek their positions, knowing what is expected. When it goes to their heads and they start fucking it up -- it's their fault. They've betrayed every person who voted for them. They stood up and said, "I can do this job," but falls from grace say, "I lied, so I could have this power."

If some cheap whore makes a mint off getting a little Dick, or maybe a little Bush, then that cheap whore deserves her mint. She didn't rape the VP/Prez. And exposing these politicians for the liars they are is fine by me. When they sought the office, they made a promise to be above hookers, drugs, bribes, and scandal. If they can't stay above it, they lied. And liars go to Hell -- Leviticus 12:4.

(btw, I made that verse up, but you were really about to go check the Bible, weren't you? Hell, even I almost went and checked on the off-chance it was serendipitiously true.)


Actually, as long as they weren't elected on a platform of family values they're perfectly entitled to sleep with a hooker in a legalised brother if they so choose or indulge in any other form of legal vice falling within the law.

It's only a lie if you explicitly said that you stood against those things during your election campaign and actively promoted a opposed stance.

Hence why the Conservative party had such a lot of trouble during the Major years. The smart thing to do is avoid family values/moral COMPLETELY.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:09 am 
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I think you meant brothel, but I get your point. However, I haven't heard a politician once say they didn't stand for family values. It comes with the territory. If you don't stand for those, who the hell is going to elect you? DINKS? LJ's Kid-hater community? Friends and family (whom you wouldn't support, oddly enough)?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:17 am 
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finalcarrots wrote:
I think you meant brothel, but I get your point. However, I haven't heard a politician once say they didn't stand for family values. It comes with the territory. If you don't stand for those, who the hell is going to elect you? DINKS? LJ's Kid-hater community? Friends and family (whom you wouldn't support, oddly enough)?


what do you call a politician that cheating on his wife with a prostitute?

already elected. Ba-dum-ting!

i agree with carrots, though on this. While intelligent people like us may know better, your average J. Citizen is going to assume that a politician is going to have strong family values, because that's what our society is still based on, the family unit. If you aren't making policy for the family and what the idea of the family stands for, you're not making policy for the majority of voters, and you won't get elected.

You gotta get the power, before you get the women.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:41 pm 
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madadric wrote:
You gotta get the power, before you get the women.

First you get the sugar.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:22 pm 
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cakewalk wrote:
you heard it here first folks. the driving force behind US politics is the illuminati's shadowy campaign of secretly installing gay men in office because they are easy to control.

Not the Illuminati dude. They are fictional. It would, however, be a useful tactic for any political machine, and the one currently running the national Republicans is probably the toughest either major party has seen since the Mark Hanna days under McKinley. People who have secrets of their own are less likely to blab about those of the organization.

Anyhow, not my theory, but someone else's. Determining why hard-core right wing gay-bashers got outed as closeted gays several times over the last few years is an issue for a psych journal. I worry more about the possible consequences of having hidebound, morally cynical, mysogynists in important public offices.

Bill Clinton flirting with an adult intern is irritating. Clarence Thomas talking dirty to the law clerks who serve under him is obnoxious. Now, consider a man who routinely hires female prostitutes for company. Would you have confidence in his ability to understand (and write laws about) sexual harassment in the workplace? Stalking? Date rape? Emergency contraception for victims of rape, or for victims of bad judgment? How about gender bigotry in the Old Boys Networks of universities or country clubs? The corporate glass ceiling?

Would legalizing prostitution help or hinder the movement towards social equality for women?

I would speculate that the many, many powerful men who commit adultery and violate vice laws are often more fanatical about enforcing those laws and punishing the vendors thereof than men who do live sexually honest lives and/or practice the monogamy they preach.

It is a complicated issue, socially and psychologically, and flushing out a few of them isn't really attacking the problem head-on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Do you think, then, that flushing out the adulterers and "johns" is a way to force political change?

Consider that "outing" politicians prostitution habits could be a way to curb that habit. The horror and embarassment, not to mention the destruction of families and public trust, could be the biggest deterent to such action.

On the flip side of that coin, it may just make them all better at hiding such affairs, possibly by killing said prostitutes. And not to make light of this or anything, but it's my experience that a dead hooker isn't really someone that's easily missed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:28 pm 
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I'm still lost on how you made the jump between hiring prostitutes and making laws about rape and sexual harrasment. Just because someone has to pay to get some nookie doesn't mean they are unfit to make decisions about rape and harrasment, both of which (in my view) are very serious actions to commit.


And why the hell don't we have legalized brothels... oh wait yeah thats why.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:42 pm 
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finalcarrots wrote:
Do you think, then, that flushing out the adulterers and "johns" is a way to force political change?

Consider that "outing" politicians prostitution habits could be a way to curb that habit. The horror and embarassment, not to mention the destruction of families and public trust, could be the biggest deterent to such action.

On the flip side of that coin, it may just make them all better at hiding such affairs, possibly by killing said prostitutes. And not to make light of this or anything, but it's my experience that a dead hooker isn't really someone that's easily missed.

With all due respect, my good sir, I must disagree with your second paragraph.
I can't imagine my politicians (as much as I disapprove of them) commit a violent crime. Corrupt as they are, their good/bad thermometer isn't that fucked up. violent crime is a result of a seriously shitty upbringing, one too shitty to produce a politician.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:21 pm 
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Gazing Rabbit wrote:
finalcarrots wrote:
Do you think, then, that flushing out the adulterers and "johns" is a way to force political change?

Consider that "outing" politicians prostitution habits could be a way to curb that habit. The horror and embarassment, not to mention the destruction of families and public trust, could be the biggest deterent to such action.

On the flip side of that coin, it may just make them all better at hiding such affairs, possibly by killing said prostitutes. And not to make light of this or anything, but it's my experience that a dead hooker isn't really someone that's easily missed.

With all due respect, my good sir, I must disagree with your second paragraph.
I can't imagine my politicians (as much as I disapprove of them) commit a violent crime. Corrupt as they are, their good/bad thermometer isn't that fucked up. violent crime is a result of a seriously shitty upbringing, one too shitty to produce a politician.

Well, it does happen on occasion, just often enough to render plausible a few episodes of Columbo or Law & Order. Overall, though, you are correct. There are different cultural varieties of corruption. Some involve cheating, thieving, and whoring, and some others might involve murder. The latter is much rarer, and claiming a politician has murdered someone for political reasons puts you right into conspiracy theory territory if you don't first show some background for that politician having that level of ethical failure and also for the cultural faction he lives in would allow him to get away with it or at least think he could.

For example, as part of the Kennedy conspiracy theories, a lot of true believers glibbly implicate Lyndon Johnson in the crime. They do this without explaining how the hundreds of scholars and journalists who have put years of study into the man failed to notice that he was a cold-blooded political sociopath.

Similar caveats can be made about the Clinton conspiracy theories and the Roosevelt-Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories, and even the Chappaquidic murder conspiracy theories.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Kaz*CheesyDoritoBomb* wrote:
I'm still lost on how you made the jump between hiring prostitutes and making laws about rape and sexual harrasment. Just because someone has to pay to get some nookie doesn't mean they are unfit to make decisions about rape and harrasment, both of which (in my view) are very serious actions to commit.

And why the hell don't we have legalized brothels... oh wait yeah thats why.

Because they take advantage of the desperation of poverty, emotionally and physically ravage the people working therein, and encourage other kinds of vice and moral callousness? That's the classical theory, and while I do not fully agree with it, it has plenty of solid evidence on its side.

Throughout history, sex with young women has been one of the standard perquisetes for men who attain wealth and power, along with higher quality food, drink, comforts, and entertainment. In most societies, men and women inhabitant linked but partially separated cultural circles. Often, powerful men form elite cultural circles ("the Old Boys Network") where they can accumulate more of the perks I noted above and raise themselves above the laws and customs of the lower classes--this by itself is a common perk of the wealthy. They also cultivate relationships with others of their kind, distribute favors and wealth among themselves without interference from the rest of society, and mutually reassure each other of their rank, power, and superiority.

Women are generally not part of these OBNs, and one of the superiorities these these elite male circles assure themselves of is their domination of women, freedom from the control other men feel women have over their emotional and sexual lives. Hence, a man who routinely engages prostitutes (as opposed to someone "wanting a little nookie") is likely to also be a mysogynist, lacking basic empathy with women and resenting them when they rise above their "place." He is likely to wish to enforce traditional social rules that disempower women relative to men and to wish to think as little as possible about social issues that might challenge his sense of superiority.

Whole treatises have been written on this topic, and many more will be written. I am just sketching the typical form the OBN takes in most civilized societies.


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