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On 2002-10-20 23:32, tychoseven wrote:
I am not complaining about Bush being in charge of the country. I was refering to the fact that our country is a democracy in name only, and it is hypocritical to go about proclaiming the superiority of democracy when we don't have one. If it's so great, why aren't <b>we</b> a democracy?
The United States is a democracy. Democracy isn't always what it's cracked up to be, however. Athens had a slave economy, for example.
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The justices can shove it. It isn't surprising that they voted the way they did. They're only human, and can't be above bias, no matter how much they claim otherwise.
No, it's not surprising. However, they could at least attempt to be above bias, as people in positions of power are supposed to; if they were doing so, I would expect at least one of the nine justices to vote against their party. That didn't happen, as we all know.
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(stuff I don't care about snipped)
I refer to the US as a democracy because that is how it is popularly known. I understand that this country was a republic at one point in time. However that republic has ceased to exist. We live in an <b>oligarchy</b> now.
The ruling elite doesn't answer to us. They control the money. They infuence the government. They own the mainstream media. All they require of us is our consent, and that can be manufactured though manipulation of these resources.
Uh-uh. An oligarchy would be, basically, an aristocratic system, where only those with money, property, or political clout (take your pick) had any say in government. You could make a case for Athens being an oligarchy, or even the United States at the beginning of its existence, but modern-day America just doesn't fit the definition. It's a democracy. It's a broken democracy, mostly because of massive popular ignorance, but the system still works correctly in form, if not in function. Special interests do have more say than I'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that (say) Ralph Nader, or any other political figure hostile to said special interests, could theoretically be voted into office.
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Yes, it is one of the most representative. But not of us. Not of me. Not of you. Not of anyone on this board. Not of 99% of the population. It represents money, and those who have it. They are at the top. They control the methods and the means of production. And they will stay there, as long as we continue to support them through our habit of conspicuous consumption.
The system isn't broken. It works perfectly, and it works for those who control it. Shouldn't the fact that he was elected tell you something about the way our country functions?
I'm not sure I know what you mean by "the system". The United States' government <i>does</i> respond to popular opinion; if it didn't, its politics wouldn't be nearly so poll-driven. Nor does it exclusively pander to businesses; look at Standard Oil and Microsoft.
Business interests do tend to have a disproportionate say in government, but I really don't see what's wrong with that. Businesses are made out of individuals. Granted, there do need to be some checks on them, in order to keep them from fucking up privacy rights or the environment in pursuit of profit, but there are federal laws about that, and most states have a referendum system in place to allow direct popular influence. The problems you mention <i>do</i> exist, but you've got the solution all wrong; instead of redistributing the wealth or something, we need to get individual voters less apathetic and more informed. It's not exactly rocket science. It's not even complicated social science.
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Dismiss this as "hippie bullshit." Dismiss it as "uninformed conspiracy speculation from some fucking loser who thinks he's living in some orwellian nether realm." Dismiss it. Because that's what you were conditioned to do.
I can't make you believe it. I don't want to make you believe it. It's up to you to decide what you want to believe. But it's all there, you just have to look for it. You have to want the truth, because you're not going to get it on CNN or Fox nightly news. They aren't going to tell you what's <b>really</b> happening. Nobody can spoon-feed you reality. You have to choose to see the truth, and until you do, you are just a puppet.
I really, really hate people that try to convince me I know nothing. I am acutely aware of the problems inherent in the United States' political system. I just happen to hold a different view of the ideal solutions.
P-M
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pyromancer on 2002-10-21 13:22 ]</font>