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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:48 pm 
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... Or is society the sole cause of people becoming good or evil? I've always wondered what triggers benevolence and depravity, and I want to know what you all believe.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:54 pm 
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It isn't that simple. Everyone here probably has their own definition of good and evil (as stated in another thread, I am a moral absolutist, but my morals have very little to do with "good" and "evil" as traditionally defined), but, that aside, I think humans are so variable that the species as a whole is neither inherently good nor inherently evil.

Individuals might be... but that's really a nature vs. nurture argument, a completely different issue.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:27 pm 
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Well, good and evil pertains to ethics and morality, and I am pretty sure that it is generally agreed that good and evil actions are actions that are done by choice. Animals do not make choices, they act automatically, so their actions cannot be considered good or evil. If only actions that are made by concious choice are considered to be good or evil, then isn't the idea of people being <i>Inherently</i> good or evil contradictory? If people are somehow determined from birth to be evil, how can they be called evil since only actions that are made by choice are considered good or evil?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 4:48 pm 
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People aren't inherently good or evil, in my opinion. We have potential for both, and it's up to us to decide our own actions. I don't want to get into it anymore than that, because then everything gets sticky when we start throwing in absolute vs. relative morals, nature vs. nurture, definitions of good and evil etc. I basically agree with P-M.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 4:51 pm 
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I'm a social scientist, so i should be all impartial and stuff

screw it, i'm 100% behind the human race, we rock, we're going all the way, overall, we will win over anything, I'm in an abusive relationship with humanity, don't you know i only hit you because i love you baby?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:03 pm 
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Me and ollie are one in this respect.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:02 pm 
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Quote:
On 2002-10-24 16:51, ollie wrote:
I'm a social scientist, so i should be all impartial and stuff

screw it, i'm 100% behind the human race, we rock, we're going all the way, overall, we will win over anything, I'm in an abusive relationship with humanity, don't you know i only hit you because i love you baby?



Amen! Speak the word brother!

Now could you please define evil? For those of us who have a moral code that doesn't not always coincide with societies ethics. See I am quite capable of ripping your throat out with my teeth if you hurt me or a loved one (I've tried). I will do my best to destroy you if you betray me. I will hunt you until you fall if you harm my friends. If you are my enemy and you have always shown your true colors at least to my eyes even though in others we may be best friends I will respect you and fight for you and your rights as hard as a friend. I will not kill with out provocation or dire need for death is waste and waste is wrong.

The only thing that will catapult me into fits of rage and blind actions is stupidity, particularly of people who are supposed to be smart and most particularly myself.

I've fucked humanity, religion, and ethics so many times I lost count. My ethics are the brutal code of the wolf, simple, violent, efficient, and effective.

-Lifyre

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lifyre on 2002-10-24 18:07 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:06 pm 
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morality isn't reactive, something isn't good or bad until it's happened, untill it's effects have followed through, even then it's subjective

"there is no good or evil, only power, and those too weak to take it"

quote from the first harry potter film there.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:09 pm 
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I believe man is inherently selfish.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:33 pm 
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If I may quote a great book by the name of <a href="http://www.therunelords.com">The Runelords</a>, which has some interesting philosopy regarding the distinction between good and evil:
<br>
<img src="http://beefstick.dyndns.org/things/goodandevil.gif">
<br>
I will paraphrase the explanation of this graph, as it is quite lengthy and I am forced to manually type it in....

"It is said that every man is the same, he defines himself as lord to himself, and inherites the three domians, Visible, Communal, and Invisible.

The Visible Domain, things we can see or touch

The Communal Domain, our relationship with others

The Invisible Domain, things that are not physical, but we protect nonetheless.

A man is considered evil if he does anything to deprive another of one of these.
He is considered good if he does anything to add to these domains voluntararily."

Its somthing to think about anyway.

-edit- Goddamn you html. -edit-

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: T-Bone Walker on 2002-10-24 19:34 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:18 pm 
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we all start out the same shade of grey, but then the choices we make change this to either light grey or dark grey. light and dark never completely takes over, evil people still do good things and viceversa.
all of this is explained in the ying-yang. and just because i think i just sounded a little to philosophical id just like to say PENIS!!!!!
there much better

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:37 am 
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As a simple answer to the original question, I'd like to say: No.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:35 am 
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as has been said before, i think we arrive as a blank slate, and it's our descision that shape us as good or bad people. (evil really only belongs in faery tales and comic books in my mind.)

but there are those who are sick. for whatever reason, these people have warped perceptions of what is around them, and this can cause them to commit despicable acts. that isn't an excuse, but something terribly wrong is going on, whether it has a chemical or psychological base.

these are the folks that seem 'inherently evil' which is not something i can define to my satisfaction.

iv'e never taken any courses on any of this, or read any text books, this is just what iv'e come up with sitting down and thinking about it. it's how i reach most of my conlusiions...which may not be the best way, as i may not have all the 'facts'

it's why i steer clear of polotics, and prefer discussions on topics like this.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:18 am 
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I think that man is inherantly evil from birth, and that we either evolve into more productive, good people, or we lie to ourselves and say we are good or that we have no control over how we think or act.
I think we all die evil deep down, but by trying to become better people we atone.

Terry Pratchett said once that the cause of all human misery and evil is where you treat people as objects, everything after that is just like decorations on a cake.

Actor.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:37 am 
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Interesting quiz about morality can be found <a href = "http://www.philosophers.co.uk/games/morality_play.htm">here</a>

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:13 pm 
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I'm noting precious few "Man is morally pure, but corrupted by societies" here, which is quite a bit disheartening, but I do not pretend that I personally believe that myself...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:38 pm 
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Well, that argument just doesn't hold water. Societies are created by humans; if humans are morally pure, why would they create inherently corrupt societies? Or why would the societies stay corrupt when populated by morally pure humans? Why would morally pure humans stay in a corrupt society?

..and so on. That argument is really only sound if you hold to a blindly deterministic (determined by forces outside of human control, that is; even if you accept the idea that human actions are predetermined, they still fit with individual moral convictions) version of history, which, to say the least, isn't very likely.

P-M

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:47 pm 
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I believe people are inherintly argumentative. Okay, okay, my option:

Certain imperitives are built into the human psyche to avoid things considered socially immoral/detriment to the species (the 'shoot-to-kill' rate in WWII was around 15%- that is, GIs admitted that they only shot to kill on average about 15% of the time. This was raised with modification of training methods, however) so I feel that people are inherintly 'good,' as defined by their society.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:49 pm 
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Damn you Pyromancer for forcing me to make sense.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:41 pm 
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I believe humans are inherently evil and prone to making poor judgements, and only a large amount of whacks inflicted at specific moments can cure them ^^

Well, the first part is true. The whacking part I'm unsure about. To each his own on instilling morality, I guess.


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