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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 6:45 pm 
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On 2002-11-13 16:14, Kills Commies wrote:
Well, you see, the missile defense system would be in place so we could go after both China and North Korea with little/no worries of nuclear weapons being used, for three main reasons:


There is only one small issue with your arguement. North Korea has never been a threat to the United States. North Korea has deterent power because if we attack them they KNOW they'll lose but they will take Seoul with them. It's only 25 miles south of the DMZ and is one of the largest cities in the world. A low yield nuke would wipe it off the planet.

Their power is not that they can threaten the US. So for North Korea a missle defence system is pointless. China is changin so fast that in very short order it is likely to be pointless for them as well, but until we know for sure it is prudent to not rule things out.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:20 pm 
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Just stepping in. The majority of you, no more talking. You don't know what you're speaking about, you have just barely enough knowledge about topics to throw in an opinion on them. Objectivism is one of those trends that was cute for a while, had some good points, but never really stuck because, as someone already pointed out, it was inherently flawed. It glossed over rational and the fact that such a state could never actually exist. Same thing with communism (oh wait for this). The basis, the very meagerest principles of communism, like equality for all, is good. It's a benevolent idea, but the problem is that it will always be abused and exploited, and could never actually exist in society without having such abuse and exploitation, and those turned it into the communism of the Soviet Union we are familiar with.

As for Iraq? Kill 'em. They've had enough chances, though I think before it should have been considered, the War with Terrorism should have been finished. Between South America and the middle east, we can only fight so many wars, and are exceeding our capabilities. Can we defeat Iraq? Sure. Should we? Hell yes. Grave and probable evil. Get 'em, Sparky. It's all Dubya's good for.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:46 pm 
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Just a small off-topic post to let everyone know that this n00b is mine. I made her post, it's my right to initiate her. Unless Mad tells me I'm not allowed to. Then I'll go cry in a small corner.

Let the debate resume.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:48 pm 
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and on a lesser note, if you want to talk about North Korea I'd like to reference you to http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/new ... h-usa.html

There. Now you can be informed before you speak.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:52 am 
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I think I'm in love...


...wait, no. Thats heart burn. But welcome, welcome. Due to your outsounding and well-thought-out post, you get a DNI.

*STAMP*

Put 'DNI given by Kills Commies' in your sig. No one gets to initiate you now.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:09 pm 
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I don't think you should have done that.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:36 pm 
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Bwahaha. And I was half-past asleep. I'm still asleep, but oh well.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:41 pm 
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This post has so obviously devolved into a personal flame-war that it's not even worth voicing my opinions on Iraq (see another thread for that), or even Objectivism (although the Capitalism vs. Communism threads has some arguments for parts of it that I think are pretty nifty). So, instead, I'll jump right in and attack everyone else's (by which I mean, Kills Commies's) style of debate (if you can really call it that). One sentance, four parenthases...a regular Dickens, I'm gettin' to be here. Anyway...

First, let me just point out that the post what started this whole mess
Quote:
(snip)
and if I see ONE MORE Ayn Rand quote, I'm going to pull a Jihad of my own on Goldstandard.
(snip)


is, to be frank, a masterpiece of overreaction. "I don't like Ayn Rand, so I'm going to yell at anyone who quotes her." Begging permission to object, but quoting in no way indicates the use of someone's ideals. I've quoted Kant's argument that the only judge of an action is the good will behind it in debates a million times, even though I hate the rest of his theory (very, very loosely: duty=good will, with some religious overtones thrown in for luck). Similarly, a good friend of mine who's a major military buff quotes Nathan Beford Forest (might have the wrong spelling on that name; sorry) all the time, and he's black, for cryin' out loud (for them what didn't know, which in no way reflects poorly on 'em, he was a Confederate calvary commander in the Civil War who went on to found the KKK). So barking up someone's ass because they quote the author of a philosophy you disagree with is just plain stupid.

Now let's take a look at Goldstandard's original Ayn Rand quote:
Quote:
(snip)
"...it makes no difference to a man whether he is killed by a nuclear bomb or a dynamite bomb or an old-fashioned club."
(snip)


Yup. Preachin' that old Objectivism there. Reason, egoism, capitalism...I can see 'em all in that post. Assuming, of course, that I only looked at the author's name. 'Cause otherwise, all I'd have seen would have been a somewhat tangental but mildly amusing quote.

Now that we've made sure everyone realizes KC was a raving idiot to start a flame war with Goldstandard like that, let me just say that neither party reacted particularly well. We all know that no one can actually take a swing at the other guy here, so pointing that out is kinda futile, not to mention petty.

Aw, hell with it...I really want to chew both parties out equally, but all Goldstandard's really guilty of is having strong opinions that the majority disagrees with. I got enough of that back on the old EN boards (by which I refer to the Keenspot ones, not the debacle of assumed names in May or whenever it was) that I gotta stick up for him. He posted a harmless quote, got pissed when KC attacked it because it came from a source KC found offensive, and allowed that to turn into an argument over the merits of Objectivism. Not hard to do, when you really ascribe whole-heartedly to a set of beliefs and someone attacks something vaguely pertaining to them as being, well, vaguely pertaining to them.

So, I guess what this all boils down to is, I'm kind of dissapointed that people are willing to buy KC's argument that Goldstandard is exhibiting "idiotic fangirliness" and "dogmatic self-denial" in posting an Ayn Rand quote and losing his temper when people disredard the quote and go on to attack the source, just because no one else here really likes Objectivism.

I guess Miss Rand was right..."no speech is ever considered, only the speaker." (Or words to that effect...been years since I read Fountainhead.)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:49 pm 
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I wouldn't say KC is a raving idiot. In fact I would argue that he is quite the opposite. I took the Jihad threat as a purposely over-agressive comment made more in jest than in anger. Of course, only KC really knows how it was meant, because intent is nigh impossible to determine in a text-only conversation.

You do have a point, in that Goldstandard was only defending himself after what he percieved to be an attack on his beliefs. Perhaps there was a more civil way to go about it, but that's only how I see the situation.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2002 5:03 pm 
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Let me put it this way- I type how I talk in person.

Can you see any half sane person saying that in anger? No. It was a joke, but it put the point out that the Ayn Rand quotes were annoying to me.

So feel free to shut the hell up, Treespeaker.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:46 am 
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On 2002-12-07 16:03, Kills Commies wrote:
(snip)
Can you see any half sane person saying that in anger?

(snip)

So feel free to shut the hell up, Treespeaker.


...

Am I the only one seeing the problem with this post?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 2:18 am 
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No.

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