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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:12 pm 
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Seeking to head off another potential debate withen a debate lets get this discussed in its own thread.China is on the road to being the next superpower and that means China will be biggest rival to the United states since Soviet Russia.Thoughts and opinions?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 11:14 pm 
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The only reason China is becoming so powerful is because we trade with them. If we stopped buying their stuff they would not be nearly as powerful, since they wouldn't have our cash. The record of Red Chinas political repression and atrocities is plentiful, and we shouldn't expect them to try to improve. They have been beligerent towards other nations in the Pacific, caused one of our planes to be forced down onto their soil and then they looted it, and in general they have been total asswipes.

The way I see it, China is definately gonna be a major power, and given their type of government they are gonna use it to bully other nations around. So, it would be in our best interest to hinder that economic growth as much as possible. Another good tactic would be to step up our missile defence system, because while it wouldn't be able to stop large scale attacks, it would be able to stop Chinas rather small stock of warheads. If this forces them to build more nukes, then so much the better, because the more we force them to spend their finite resources on guns, the less they will have for the butter.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:33 am 
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China has plenty of great hardworking talent. This diligence has gotten them furthur than most eastern countries could've gone. And with it's huge population, chances are there are more talented deviants there than in any other country, so statistically it all works out.

Personally, I really don't see how China is gonna be a threat.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:20 pm 
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China is a threat because of it's policy of using the civilian economy mostly to build up its military and further the goals of the PLA.But really they are not a threat to the United states directly.Except for the fact that they try and steal our military technology at every chance they get.The only nations that are really threatend are India,russia,japan.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Barghest on 2002-11-14 15:20 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 4:47 pm 
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You missed 'all of southeast asia.'


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:40 pm 
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Great. Now I have to move to Europe.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:11 pm 
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Wow,this is odd.Is everybody here in agreement that China presents a threat?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 2:48 pm 
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I read somewhere that China has enough Sunburn missles to take out the entire U.S. navy if need be. Something nasty's going on there...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:26 pm 
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Actually I read somewhere that during a computer simulation the Chinese fleet of 2015 beat the US fleet.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:29 pm 
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Well, I don't put much stock in computer simulations, especially ones that take place so far in the future. We can't really predict how strong they will be 13 years from now, because their strength comes from our trading with them and their using the money to fund their army. If we can put the brakes on their economy they will have to choose between having guns and having food. That is why we should stop all trade with them. Taiwan and all the other more decent nations can make our stuff instead.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:39 pm 
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China won't touch the US. Why? Because they rely on us for trade more than we rely on them, and they know that, and as patriotic as the Chinese people are, they are not going to see the economic downfall of their country just to stifle American economy, which is clearly proving its resilience as we come out of the slump that followed 9/11. China would not dare, we know and they know it, and it's why they are only balking at our attempts to acknowledge Taiwan and break the outdated One China policy. They know that if we support Taiwan, the equivalent of the wrath of God supports Taiwan.

They won't touch us.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 1:18 am 
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They are too weak, <i>right now.</i> That can change, if we continue to trade with them. Their government has no desire to lighten up and allow their people more freedom, and the government is raking in the dough from trade and using it to expand its army. You say they will not try to mess with Taiwan and any other southeast asian nation, much less us. So why the build up? Leaked documents show that Chinas military is planning for war, with the USA.

http://www.newsmaxstore.com/nms/showdet ... &af_id=101

Follow this link and see what else China is doing.

I have nothing against the Chinese people, but I absolutely hate their government. The Tianamen massacre is what happens if the citizens of China oppose the government, so nobody in their right mind would speak out about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:06 am 
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Disturbing to say the least.But if the CIA has already looked over it then we are already taking it all into consideration.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:17 am 
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I doubt we CAN handle it, even if we are trying to figure out ways to handle it, but that's because I highly doubt the ability of our military forces to handle anything after Clinton cut them down to less than half their capacity when he was President . . .

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 11:48 am 
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The United states military way of thinking has always been technology,training and firepower.Meanwhile the Chinese military has always been about the "people's war".Basically use their incredible numbers to wipe out the enemy.But kit if you would look at the chinese military now you would see that while they have now been able to arm every soldier and have lots of heavy weapons they are all 1950-1970 era tech.So if we and china came to blows and we had some good strategy and if we can bring the full force of our military against them we can hold our own.

Now about those irregular tactics,while those terrorist tactics could be hard to deal with they would do better if they were used when america had never considered a terrorist attack on its soil.Now though we are mentally ready and have resources put towards countering them.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:59 pm 
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Good point barg. If we just lob a few Daisy Cutters at 'em that should thin out their numbers a bit!

If we fight terrorists, I don't think being on the defencive is the best method of attack. We should try to kill them before they reach our soil. We are doing that now, but I think we need to be much more aggressive about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:13 pm 
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Key word in your statement, Barg? "If we can bring the full force of" our military.

We can't. And whether our military's full force could handle it or no, if China were to attack, they'd make sure to do it when we're busy with something else.

Now as much as I hate China for what they've done to their citizens--I've been there, I've seen how they live, and I'll hate them for it always--and how much it scares me that they're RIGHT NEXT TO my g/f's home country (Taiwan) and they're the biggest threat to Taiwan at the moment . . .

I don't believe we'd ever attack them. Simply because as long as the Democratic Party exists China will always never end up on our shit list, and because we get too much trade from them for the same Congressmen to enjoy the idea of losing their business because of war . . .

I'm very pessimistic about it, so please refute me if you can, because I don't like being this depressed about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:34 pm 
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I don't think that we are doomed. We have been through worse crap and survived. I do agree that the businessmen who engage in trade with China will get screwed, but the only ones who they can blame are themselves. If you try to make a deal with the devil, you ALWAYS get burned. Becides, if trade with China stops, we can always get the goods from Taiwan or South Korea, or some other friendly developing country. There would be price spike in the short run, but in the long run things would return to normal. While China may have a lot of Sunburn missiles, they do not have the big blue water navy we have, and our Air Force is superior. Our army, though smaller, is better trained and equiped just like Barg said, and I doubt there would be a shortage of volunteers if there was a war and people understood what was at stake. And then there is the ultimate anti infantry bomb, the Daisy Cutter. If the Chinese tried any of the human wave attack bullshit we would just sit back and watch the Daisy Cutters rupture their lungs! Hahaha!!!

BTW, didn't the Chinese attack us in the Korean War? Hell, if I was president at the time I would have declared war and wiped the bastards out then and there.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:26 pm 
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First off,gold please refer to the Daisy cutter as the FAE.That's the proper name.Also those things arn't cheap and it takes a damn big plane to drop them so you really wouldn't see them being widely used.Napalm is a better weapon for the job.
Second,Yes in the Korean war we had nearly kicked the Commie koreans out when China launched a incredible sneak attack that nearly drove us from korea.For many years people thought that we had forced china to attack because they were scared of us going into china.But recently documents dug out of moscow archives show that Stalin was a key-factor in getting China into the picture.In fact many say that his death helped bring a end to the war.Politics kept us from going all out on the chinese.

Kit,China won't invade Taiwan anytime soon.First they need to find the cash to build up a amphibous fleet but even then the losses the Chinese would suffer would be staggering.And the leaders being paranoid commies seeking only to hang onto their own power they would think that such a conflict would leave them open to the russians and india.Not many people know that China and India has a short conflict and the two still are at odds.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2002 9:41 pm 
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Technically, FAE refers to any fuel-air explosive, from 2000-pound airdropped BLU-96 weapons to a sack of flour and two shotgun shells.

The correct designation for the "Daisy Cutter" bomb is BLU-82, nicknamed "Commando Vault" in Vietnam, where "BLU" stands for "Bomb, Live Unit". The "damn big plane" Barghest referred to is a C-130; I do not know of any other aircraft capable of dropping them. It is not a fuel-air explosive, press reports notwithstanding.

Yay for being pedantic!

P-M

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pyromancer on 2002-11-17 21:07 ]</font>


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