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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:45 am 
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I would've preferred no male model to my asshole of a grandpa.

Well, at least I know how not to act...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:16 pm 
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The man does have a point. I would have preferred no male role model to my idiot father. Also the non-mother certainly should have a right to the child if she is one of its legal guardians, which would be the only sensible way for any gay or lesbian couple to raise a child together. After all not all people who have children are fit to be parents, and many people who can not have children for one reason or another make wonderful parents.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 3:48 pm 
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I agree, many people should not be allowed to raise kids, my best friend's mother was one of the most cruel, emotionally abusive people I've ever seen. I am not saying that lesbians or homosexual men shouldn't be allowed to raise children, it just brought to mind a lack of decent male role models for kids who have no fathers or bad fathers. Women in education need to rethink their open hostility towards male teachers in early schooling.

I still don't see the point in making a non-parent the legal guardian, since fathers have absolutely no rights in america anyway, a drug-addicted, violent, abusive, biological mother is considered better than the best father on earth in the court system when it comes to custody, step-parents? Hah! They have even less rights.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:01 pm 
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Though dads do fuck up a lot, for the most part they are a more positive influence than if you went without.

Males without dads frequently have immense discipline problems- as they have no figure to look up to, either to say 'that is what a man is' or 'that is what a man shouldn't be' they tend to try to express their manliness in ways society frowns on.

Females without dads frequently become quick to attach intimately with people. All of the girls I have known without dads (about 30 or so) always choose older men- usually older by at least 4 or 5 years, all the way up to a 15 year old hooking up with some 30 year old. Again, it isn 't HOW the father treats you- its his presence in the household.

Though much can be said for the after-effect of bad parents in your later life, both parents present in your developemental stages are vital to at least getting off on the right foot on this whole 'healthy adult' thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2003 8:36 pm 
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Its mostly economical, as I see it. A major perk of being married is a) you get a tax break and b)you can have joint accounts. Love is there, I know, but I dont see why homosexuals can't be treated the same as the rest of us who decide to marry someone of the opposite sex. I dont want to start a flame war, and its obvious that most people dont get married so they can get a tax break, but...I got nuthin...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:24 am 
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Uhm, I don't know what country you are living in, but look at a freakin' income tax form sometime. There is a much debated marriage PENALTY in the US. It's part of the reason common-law marriages are so common here.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:37 pm 
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Just to let you know Clay, I don't know in other states, but one of the primary requirements for common law marriage in the state of Texas is that you must declare yourself as man and wife. As for same sex marraiges, I say why not. The main reason that its not allowed in a great number of places is that the Church is truly not seperated from state. Now, I'm not necisarily an advocate of removing stuff like "One nation under God." If you don't want to say it, do say it. I don't necisariyl believe in the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god, but I'm not offended when its on my dollar bill. I'm digressing, I apoligize. If two people want to get married, I say let them. It isn't bothering me one bit if its 2 daddys, or 2 mommies.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2003 2:46 am 
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By common law marriage I meant so many of the people here in Texas that have had a live-in fiancee for 16 years.

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One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:00 pm 
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My sister's a lesbian. So is one of my aunts. So are many of my friends. Three of my cousins are gay. So is my uncle Fred.

He's the V.P. of a major magazine publisher in Toronto, lives in a million dollar home, and travels all year. He's well repected in his community, and a great guy all round.

My uncle is my Male Role Modle. My father was never there for me, but he was. Is. Through thick and thin, I've always been able to count on him. (Despite him not shutting up about how I should find a nice girl.)

I respect him like few others.

Now, what do you think my opinion on the subject is?

Oh, and kevryn, for posting a decent thread, despite beeing a n00b,...

*Cracks DNI bat over kev's head*

Lucky you.

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-edit-
Quote:
On 2003-01-12 21:51, bigmacd24 wrote:

In Ontario, same sex marriages are not legaly recognized... but that doesn't stop people from registering them. You can go to a (fairly modern) church, and have the marriage. If you wish, the preist will even fill out a marriage certificate for you, and file it with the government. Now in thereoy, there is a fail safe in place to prevent illegal marriages. It is not being exercised, so while the government doesn't recognize same sex marriages... it ignores your sex. Nice set up... will need to be changed eventualy, but it works for now.


Maybe not, but it's getting closer.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: H-Kat on 2003-01-24 16:11 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 6:14 pm 
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Canada kicks ass.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:07 pm 
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*Smuggest grin possible*

Yep.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:19 am 
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I'm definitely conservative, but I don't have any problem with gay marriages. I do think a child, male or female, would grow up best with both male and female influences and role models in their early life, but there are always aunts, uncles, teachers, etc. to help fill that role; the parents just need to be aware of that need.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:31 am 
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Im very pro-same sex marriages, nobody should be able to force their moral values relating to something like same sex marriage onto other people; fair enough you can force moral values on thinks like murder or rape, where you are affecting other peoples lives, but homosexuals simply want to be able to say that they love and are commited to each other. The only thing i would say is it would probably have to be done in a governmental building, such as a registary office; basically because most churches are completely agains any form of same sex relationships. I would say the same for polyogomy, as long as they're all consenting, and of age it should be legal, i can fully understand three or more people loving each other.

Oh, and i only had female role models most of my life; my father died when i was eight, and the only other father figure of the right age would be my uncle, who was a bastard and is divorced from my aunt. My grandfather was there, but because of his age we couldnt do the usual things (like football etc).

In summary: let people do what the hell they like as long as no-one is being harmed.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 12:52 pm 
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Tsh...role models...personally I say screw role models... Of course someone with no dad or no mom will grew up differently then someone with, but who's to say whether that's worse or better? Let every two persons who seem to have the collective emotional and intellectual capacity NOT to completely fuck the kid up raise a child. If they need a role model, they'll find one. And if they decide they DON'T want one, then that's their choice as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2003 6:12 pm 
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Surprisingly, the stereotypical Christian in me agrees with Rand.

(Hell has officially frozen over.)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 1:33 pm 
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I think Rand summed up my feeling on this matter better in one paragraph, than i could have hoped to in severl pages.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:08 pm 
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as for the argument that it might screw children up, since when has disallowing stupid actions, as long as they're not really criminal, been a government policy? It's part of the freedom of democracy to do stupid things. I'm not saying that being a child of homosexual parents would screw you up, I'm just saying that, even if it did, that's no reason to outlaw it.

Also, i'd beg to differ with the assertion that fathers get less custody than mothers. The only discerning factor in the criminal justice system is money; those with more of it can hire better lawyers and afford to drag cases out until the other side can't afford to continue. I've seen it happen with my own parents; unfortunately for me, both sides are my financial supporters, so I get doubly screwed.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:34 pm 
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puts the laughter in slau wrote:
Im very pro-same sex marriages, nobody should be able to force their moral values relating to something like same sex marriage onto other people; fair enough you can force moral values on thinks like murder or rape, where you are affecting other peoples lives, but homosexuals simply want to be able to say that they love and are commited to each other.


Just one thing, homosexual marriages do affect other people, especially if they decide to raise kids. First it affects the kids, one way or another, to be the child of a same sex marriage. For some children its traumatic, for others its the best thing that ever happened to them. Secondly it affects the parents of the couple. After all most parents want grandchildren of their own bloodline. Old-fashioned I know, but hey, they're parents. Also many parents think that it is somehow shameful to have a child who is homosexual, which spawns whole boatloads of emotional stuff between the parents and couple. Granted all this is still not a reason to outlaw it, but I wanted to point that out cause I'm anal like that.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:03 pm 
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Hmm...basically, there's a lot of bad things that can happen, but I'm betting that the same things can happen in straight marriages. If anyone has any figures with actual comparisons from the same study, please post. I'm especially interested in divorce rates; does anyone know if there's a big difference between homosexual and straight marriages in that?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:14 pm 
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Well, the other thing is that, even if it screws up the children, that's no reason to outlaw marriage; maybe, if you could prove to me that it was really detrimental to the kids' health, you could outlaw adoption. But that's not going to work anyway, cause they could simply have one parent adopt.

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