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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:07 pm 
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<img src="http://www.ptreyeslight.com/stories/jan02_03/men_for_peace_1.jpg">

BARING WITNESS AGAINST WAR – Ninety-four mostly West Marin women on Sunday used their naked bodies to spell out PEACE on Drake’s Beach. Fifty women mounted a similar demonstration in Point Reyes Station Nov. 12. This time 24 men also demonstrated in the buff, creating a large peace symbol on the beach. Organizer Donna Sheehan of Marshall said the demonstrations were a "precursor to the mass naked emonstrations in San Francisco and Washington, DC, on Jan. 18." Sheehan said she expects "a 100,000 people – men and women – to disrobe for Peace" at that time. Sunday’s female protesters expressed the "desperation of women" opposed to the Bush Administration’s plans for war with Iraq. Sheehan said, adding that the men by forming the international peace symbol were showing "solidarity with the women against global domination and war."

I don't think I need to say anything else...

EDIT: Errr... by "protest I'd like to see," I meant the women in the buff forming various symbols... you knew that, right? :smile:

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doromond on 2003-01-19 18:11 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:15 pm 
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America is currently reliving the Sixties. Do not adjust your set.

I'm serious. Moral relativism, feminism and gay rights, the whole anti-war thing (which, incidentally, is already at the scale of Vietnam-era protests despite the fact that no actual military action worth talking about has occurred so far), even (in my college, at least) long hair on men. Is our generation so desperate for something to believe in that we can't do any better than ape our parents?

There's a rant here. I can feel it coming.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:22 pm 
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On 2003-01-19 18:15, Pyromancer wrote:
America is currently reliving the Sixties. Do not adjust your set.

I'm serious. Moral relativism, feminism and gay rights, the whole anti-war thing (which, incidentally, is already at the scale of Vietnam-era protests despite the fact that no actual military action worth talking about has occurred so far), even (in my college, at least) long hair on men. Is our generation so desperate for something to believe in that we can't do any better than ape our parents?

There's a rant here. I can feel it coming.

P-M

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Pyro -

If I remember correctly, you live right near Berkely, California, which in no way represents normal American culture. I mean, Jesus Christ - it's the most radically left-wing area in the entire United States.

I'm in New York City, a fairly liberal place itself, but I wouldn't say the atmosphere here is anything like the atmosphere in the Sixties. Then again, I wasn't even alive back then, so I really wouldn't be able to tell I guess.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:25 pm 
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Is our generation so desperate for something to believe in that we can't do any better than ape our parents?


Yes.

Did you expect anything less from the "get in line, do as you're told" mentality that capitalism places on us?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:28 pm 
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Santa Cruz is about a hundred miles from Berkeley, but politically it's close enough, to my everlasting sorrow.

Do recall that a good chunk of what we think of as the Sixties occurred in this area; I don't doubt that my perspective is geographically skewed, but so is our historical perspective. According to the people I've talked with that actually lived through that time period (parents, mostly), the Sixties in most places were nowhere near as liberal as we normally think of them; much of what we now think of as the Sixties <i>zeitgeist</i> springs directly from the San Francisco Bay area.

Anyway. I stand by my comments.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pyromancer on 2003-01-19 18:42 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:28 pm 
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And I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd MUCH rather prefer this to the radicly right, fundamentalist christian movment that could be.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:57 pm 
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And I'd much rather prefer that to nuclear war.

What the fuck was the point, Vae?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:10 pm 
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To seize another chance to spread my blatant anti-corporistic godless comunist propaganda.

It was an exaggeration. Just like everything I post is.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:22 pm 
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No, Vae, because 'what could be' is so fucking stupid that it can justify anything in the way you are using it.

How about this? I'd rather have intelligent protesters who knew what the fuck they were talking about, instead of you and apparently a good majority of people in Berkley.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:29 pm 
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I don't support these peacenecks(sp?). But I also don't support jerry fallwell. And if we're not headed one way, were headed the other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:37 pm 
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Thats foolishness to assume that all must end up as either radical left or radical right. Shut the fuck up until you have something to say.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:53 pm 
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*reads the posts*
*scratches her head*
If people wanna lie naked on something to protest that they don't want to be nuked in a war that this country doesn't want or need, let 'em. What's the problem? Obviously we've got to get that retard Bush's attention somehow, so we can get it through his thick fucking skull that we DON'T want to go to war.
Canada's not backing us.
The UN's not backing us.
Nato's not backing us.
Fuck, the american public isn't backing us.
If we fight this war, then North Korea's gonna be up our asses, on OUR soil. We can't fight a war on two fronts. If you remember yer history, that's when Germany started losing, was when she started fighting a war on two shores.
This is just a bad situation, and I think we should do everything within reason to stop it.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 9:33 pm 
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On 2003-01-19 19:37, Kills Commies wrote:
Thats foolishness to assume that all must end up as either radical left or radical right. Shut the fuck up until you have something to say.


Will do.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:55 pm 
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So, what do you think would be the most effective yet non violent way to protest something, and I mean anything, War, peace, tacos what ever you dont want around how would you get your point across?

For me the Naked thing seems like a winner, but I'd want to get the girls from the local gentleman clubs involved, because if people are gonna be naked than it should probably be left to the professionals.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHO on 2003-01-19 21:56 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:17 pm 
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On 2003-01-19 21:55, SHO wrote:
For me the Naked thing seems like a winner, but I'd want to get the girls from the local gentleman clubs involved, because if people are gonna be naked than it should probably be left to the professionals.



Can I get an 'Amen' over here?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:30 pm 
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On 2003-01-19 19:29, Vaergoth wrote:
I don't support these peacenecks(sp?). But I also don't support jerry fallwell. And if we're not headed one way, were headed the other.



Y'know, I think the worst thing that ever happened to political thought was the "left-wing" and "right-wing" classifications that we slap onto everything now.

Left- and right-wing simply doesn't cover all the possibilities of political theory. The simplest reasonably accurate classification I've seen falls along two axes (social and economic freedoms), but even that doesn't cover everything. Particularly when you get into things like religious participation in government.

P-M

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:57 pm 
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On 2003-01-19 19:53, Ryven wrote:
*reads the posts*
*scratches her head*
If people wanna lie naked on something to protest that they don't want to be nuked in a war that this country doesn't want or need, let 'em. What's the problem? Obviously we've got to get that retard Bush's attention somehow, so we can get it through his thick fucking skull that we DON'T want to go to war.
Canada's not backing us.
The UN's not backing us.
Nato's not backing us.
Fuck, the american public isn't backing us.
If we fight this war, then North Korea's gonna be up our asses, on OUR soil. We can't fight a war on two fronts. If you remember yer history, that's when Germany started losing, was when she started fighting a war on two shores.
This is just a bad situation, and I think we should do everything within reason to stop it.



Urge to kill...rising...

Seriously. This post has been the first thing that has genuinely pissed me off in a good while.

A) NATO is backing us
B) Approval for a war with iraq is high, as long as we have SOME allies with us, which we will
C) North Korea cannot invade the united states with that whole, you know, 'pacific fleet' thing in their way. Seeing as how its the BIGGEST FLEET IN THE FUCKING AREA, I don't see N. Korea defeating it
D) SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU IGNORANT PIECE OF SHIT. DO US ALL A FAVOR AND SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH WHEN ALL THINGS POLITICAL ARE MENTIONED.

-Kills Commies
Erm...*adjusts tie*...now then...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:01 am 
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KC, we're all tired of your nationalistic babbling. STFU unless you can talk in a reasonable and analytical way.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:10 am 
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It was. All newspolls registered overall support for the war above 60%, unless we had to go with no allies, in which case the average was around 40%.

Secondly- North Korea has a shitty navy, and it cannot compare to the nuclear-powered submarines or carriers of the pacific fleet. To 'invade' the US, north korea would have to both take island bases on the way to america- since they have no transports that can get all the way to the west coasts and thus must make refeuling stops- and also defeat the mightiest fleet in the area. This is not nationalistic bragging, either- in flat out numbers, quality, and training the pacific fleet outdoes anything in the region by far.

NATO, or at least quite a few NATO countries, has pledged its support in a war against Iraq.

Facts. Vae, I repeat- until you have some backable point to make, shut the fuck up. If there are two things I don't like, its someone with a shitty, lets-be-in-style reason to dislike something, and ignorance. You display the former, this Ryven person the latter. Both of you should be shot. Twice.

Edit: I wonder if you know the definition of 'nationalistic.' I do not want the US to have colonies, or gain some sort of power through this. I want safety for the US people. Perhaps you should also look up 'nationalism' before you post more of your foolishness.

-Kills Commies
Fuckers

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kills Commies on 2003-01-19 23:13 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:16 am 
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Quote:
On 2003-01-19 22:57, Kills Commies wrote:

Urge to kill...rising...

Seriously. This post has been the first thing that has genuinely pissed me off in a good while.

A) NATO is backing us
B) Approval for a war with iraq is high, as long as we have SOME allies with us, which we will
C) North Korea cannot invade the united states with that whole, you know, 'pacific fleet' thing in their way. Seeing as how its the BIGGEST FLEET IN THE FUCKING AREA, I don't see N. Korea defeating it
D) SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU IGNORANT PIECE OF SHIT. DO US ALL A FAVOR AND SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH WHEN ALL THINGS POLITICAL ARE MENTIONED.

-Kills Commies
Erm...*adjusts tie*...now then...


*chuckles* Cute, KC. It's that sort of war-pig attitude that's going to get our asses kicked. Take a public poll, I think the numbers will answer themselves.

Like it or not, this country ISN'T invincible and it ISN'T the police for the world. The only reason Bush wants this war is because A) The oil companies have their hands up his and are using him as a puppet and B) He wants to be remembered just like hs daddy Bush SR. Anyone can see that.

And just how are we going to defend ourselves if Bush has sent/is sending most of our forces to Iraq? And even so, how is the "pacific fleet" going to save us from a nuclear bomb? This "war" is senseless.

He'd be a decent president if he'd stop trying to play hero and actually pay attention to what's happening around here, like, oh, the recession we're falling into.

Secondly, I won't shut my mouth when all things political are mentioned, and it's awefully rude of you to tell me to. This is a public forum for public opinion, not soley yours. I suggest that you get used to hearing other opinions that don't coincide with yours, because that's the way this country works. And will continue to work this way, if we survive that long.

I'm not being unpatriotic. I love this country. I just don't want to see it taken down by this unecessary war.

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