Expansion of Patriot Act

P51mus · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:29 pm

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15138

Quote:

The Bush Administration is preparing a bold, comprehensive sequel to the USA Patriot Act passed in the wake of September 11, 2001, which will give the government broad, sweeping new powers to increase domestic intelligence-gathering, surveillance and law enforcement prerogatives, and simultaneously decrease judicial review and public access to information.

Discuss.

I'm particularly worried about this section of the bill:

Quote:

Section 501, "Expatriation of Terrorists": This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated "if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a 'terrorist organization'." But whereas a citizen formerly had to state his intent to relinquish his citizenship, the new law affirms that his intent can be "inferred from conduct." Thus, engaging in the lawful activities of a group designated as a "terrorist organization" by the Attorney General could be presumptive grounds for expatriation.

Basically, if they don't like you, they can declare your citizenship gone. That's just fucked.

Oh, and here's a point:

Quote:

Cole found it disturbing that there have been no consultations with Congress on the draft legislation. "It raises a lot of serious concerns and is troubling as a generic matter that they have gotten this far along and tell people that there is nothing in the works. What that suggests is that they're waiting for a propitious time to introduce it, which might well be when a war is begun. At that time there would be less opportunity for discussion and they'll have a much stronger hand in saying that they need these right away."

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2003 10:59 pm

Well that just sucks. I mean, you know that Bush has never really wanted to fight terrorism, only to either A. Control all the oil in the world by the time the shortages begin in 20ish years (right now, France and Germany have lucrative contracts with Iraq, because their sanctions aren't as stringent as ours), or B. Create a new American empire (going from just a superpower to controller of the world) in the world. I guess the case for war in Iraq is strong, if only because, like in Afghanistan, it will probably help the people of Iraq in the long run (God knows we owe them that, at least). But why limit our rights, if not to consolidate his power against the growing unrest against his domestic and foreign policies?

OmnipotentEntity · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:33 pm

This is about the time when I move to Japan...

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Mon Feb 10, 2003 11:35 pm

yeah, but they have gun control laws there...*sob* ;)

Clay_Allison · **Posted:** Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:19 pm

Senator Joseph McCarthy isn't dead. He's alive and well and still an alcoholic bastard! Have we come up with a colour for terrorists yet? We could call them Browns! We can have a Brown scare!

"Are you questioning our righteous crusade? You must be tan. Better in the ground than BROWN!!!"

The Cleveland Brown would have to change their name like the Cincinnatti Reds did! Everyone in the country with the last name of Brown will be executed!!! (third most common name in America). Here we go again!!!

Mehve · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2003 3:18 pm

This sort of overly controling behavior by our president (who our esteemed voters managed to elect twice) gives me the willies. I mean one lesson any reasonably good student of history learns is that, the more power you take out of the hands of the people and put into the hands of the politicians and leaders, the closer you come to the kind of government which leads to a civil war or a revolution. I mean granted that a dictatorship is the most practical and efficient form of government known to man, it is also a fact that few humans can be just while having that much power. So what I want to know is, how long until Bush becomes a dictator? Because thats what it looks like we're heading for. Almost every week it seems like you hear about a new law or ammendment or somthing that cuts down on your privacy and freedom, but supposedly keeps us safer from the evil terrorists who will come over and attack us in the middle of the night and kill us all in our beds. All I have to say is Quis custodie custodiet?

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:08 pm

Is that "who guards the guard?" I'm taking Latin, but I'm not firmiliar with costodie. Is that abl 3rd decl. "Guard"? In that case, shouldn't it be in the accusative case?

RMG · **Posted:** Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:04 pm

Man, I should move to a country that isn't completely batshit insane.

CommiePinko · **Joined:** Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:00 pm **Posts:** 21

Good luck finding one. I am going to move to an uninhabitated island and grow my own crops and live off the land.

tychoseven · **Joined:** Wed May 15, 2002 5:00 pm **Posts:** 210

This country gets more fucked up every day. I hope I can leave before that becomes an act of terrorism as well.

Ghost · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2003 11:27 am

Mehve wrote:

Quis custodie custodiet?

It's supposed to be "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"* and it's from the writings of Marcus Iuvenalis, commonly known as Juvenal.

*"Who guards the guardians?" or, if you're a member of the Road Trip, "Who watches the Watchers?" :D

Barghest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 13, 2003 3:18 pm

You know what?

All these laws actually make me happy.People are finally realizing that they shouldn't take their freedom for granted.

All I have to say is that if we can't simply raise enough noise to stop these acts then we damn well don't deserve the freedom we have.

Pyromancer · **Posted:** Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:27 pm

Hearing about this sort of thing always makes me want to drive to the nearest gun store and spend about ten thousand dollars.

Too bad I live in California, where anything more powerful than a one-shot .22 derringer (and even that if concealed) is considered an "assault weapon" and therefore highly illegal.

P-M

-><-

OmnipotentEntity · **Posted:** Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:41 am

How do you not concel a derringer? Do you wear it on your forehead? Or display it proudly on cheek? I don't think there is a way to not concel the thing without looking like a true idiot.

Clay_Allison · **Posted:** Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:58 am

How about Questio quid juris Do you know that one?

OmnipotentEntity · **Posted:** Sat Feb 15, 2003 1:01 am

Questio quid juris = What is law?

P51mus · **Posted:** Sat Feb 15, 2003 12:36 pm

the worst part about seeing what happens is the waiting.

Abunai! · **Posted:** Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:03 am

Move to Canada.
It is the only solution.
Everyone in the US must mass-emigrate.
To Canada.

....after all, nobody ever suspects Canada. Hehehe.

Seriously, these laws creep the hell out of me. "Oh, we don't like you, so you're not a citizen." Like some sort of Red Scare. Next thing you know there will be the House of Unamerican Activities Committee again.......

P51mus · **Posted:** Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:00 pm

*_*
I really really hope not....

Mehve · **Posted:** Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:29 pm

What really scares me is that under the Patriot Act, they can find out everything that you've checked out, bought, or rented in the way of books, music, etc. And then they can decide that you are a terrorist and have you arrested or deported or whatever.

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Expansion of Patriot Act

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