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 Post subject: Contraceptives and you
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 8:34 pm 
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What are your guys' thoughts on the attempts on taking contraceptives and things like it off of health care plans, out of sex ed, and things like that? I know recently one of the hospitals around my area was caught not giving the morning after pill to a rape victim, even though it's against state law to deny them that pill. The hospital was Catholic, ironically.

Anyway, let's hear thoughts on this.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:18 pm 
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Ironically Catholic? Try obviously.

I am for contraception all over the place, the more the merrier, there are too damned many people, let's get that birthrate down.

I am for everything except abortion, and I am only really for outlawing third trimester abortions (except as part of another medical emergency) I have known adults who were born VERY early, they are goddamn human, and if you can't get it taken care of within six goddamn months, I don't think you should be allowed to kill for convenience. And I'd still like to know why a father has no right to keep his child from being killed but is still responsible if the child is born, if it only belongs to the mother, then it should only be her responsibility, if the father shares equal responsibility, then he should have some say in the execution of what he is responsible for! [/rant]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 10:44 pm 
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Yeah, having abortions for convience isn't right. I think they should be saved for situations like rape, or if the mother's life is in danger, that sort of thing. Most women get irate, however, when others try to tell them what they can and can't do with their bodies, that even includes the fathers. If a mother's having an abortion because she could potentially die in birth, then yeah, the father can go take a flying leap through a rolling donut. However, if she's just having an abortion for some dumb reason (IE, "Oops, I forgot to take my pill."), then yeah, he should have a say.

And as for the catholic thing....ugh. I thought church and state were supposed to be seperate, yet there are public, religious-based hospitals denying people the care they need. Pathetic is what I call it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:37 pm 
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I am pro birth control. 100% behind it am I. The town I lived in until I was 13 went about like this. If you were age 16-18 you would fall into one of theses categories:

1: Virgin
2: Parent
3: Pregnant
4: Pregnancy scares

It didn't matter race, creed, motto, slogan, jock, nerd, or anything. Thats pretty much the way it went. I have two nephews, ages 4 and nearly 3. They would have had an older brother at about age 6 or 7, but my sister had a miscarraige. She is now only barely 22. She was pregnant with her first son at age 15. The sad thing is, I know younger than that who have had kids. This isn't anything new either, my mother lived a large portion of her life there, and still does for now. She was only 17 when married and when my sister was born. So do I use condoms? All the time. Do I want my girfriends on birth control? Yes. I've seen first had what it can do. When I graduated from high school, one seinor was pregnant, but so was a sophmore and a freshman. We had only 53 people in my graduating class, and the lower classes had anywhere from 50-65 or so. Its sad how stupid kids are. A friend of mine and I were in a class where a guy was griping about a pregnancy scare, and we asked if he used a condom. "I never use condoms. They don't matter." We both just shook our heads and left the conversation...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:46 pm 
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What if the child couldn't be adequately taken care of? Then, would it be right to abort? Can we even make that determination, or is it simply the parents' decision whether they should abort or not? If so, then how do you prevent people from aborting for convenience? Or should that be right, too?

Discuss.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:51 pm 
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I don't know what the big deal about "aborting for convienice" is. If they don't want the child then if they have it what makes you think that they'll take care of it?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:54 pm 
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The thing is, a human embryo, before a certain time, is almost the exact same as a turtle, a frog, a bird, or a great deal of other animals at the same time of development...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:56 pm 
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It's a responsibility thing, really. Children aren't like dogs, they can't be tossed into the pound just because a person can't take care of them. If they think they aren't capable, then they can be put up for adoption. At least then, they'll live. But having the baby aborted because the parents would be crappy parents is sorta like executing all South Africans because their rulers suck, and saying "It's for their own good."

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:00 am 
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True, adoption is a good thing. One of my roomates is adopted and has absolutly no idea who his real parents are. Its sad that he doesn't know that, but he was raised by very caring parents, which is better than a great deal of people...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:04 am 
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And, I'm in no way saying a woman shouldn't have the right to abort. 'Cause, well, I'm a chick. Self interest. *chuckles* What another woman does with her body is her business. If she wants to abort her kid, then more power to her, it's her life. However, it doesn't mean I have to agree with the reasoning behind it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:29 am 
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Amen to that ryven.

agree or disagree with a woman's reason for aborting a baby, or giving it up for adoption, i support her right to make the decision.

What really bugs me is women who just keep getting pregnant and popping out the kids for welfare, and then practically abandoning the kids to relatives. it's stupid, and it's sick. but it's also not my place to do anything more than perhaps cvall social welfare or something.

i kew one person who had 3 daughters, ages five, four, and three, with another on the way. she didn't care, and she wasn't going to abort. the worst part is she had quite a few diseases she was giving to these poor kids.

in the end the courts are trying to get her to get her tubes tied. good fucking luck.

Contraception. USE IT! any sort you can get your hands on that's safe. having a child is the greatest responsibility in the world, don't even encourage the chance of it without being in a solid relationship and both partners ready, able, and willing to take on the long-term commitment.

take it from a "happy accident", unecpected pregnancies can blow all your plans out the window, and can make for what was a comfortable BF/GF relationship into a very unsatisfying parenthood.

not giving out contraception and not teaching sex ed doesn't discourage sex, it just encourages unsafe sex. those old-world taboos are just a hindrance to healthy society today.

enough of my ranting. iv'e been doing far too much of it of late...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:29 pm 
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Here's something I would like to point out, if people can kill their kids, who haven't done anything wrong, how about that bastard across the street who keeps playing loud rap music on sunday morning when I aam trying to sleep in? Can I go plant a hatchet in his skull and abort him? Why not legalize murder, on a limited basis, you get one free murder a year!

Send the guy a certified letter, telling him that you intend to waste his ass, and from the date of the official challenge he is welcome to try to do the same to you, then have at it. We are overpopulated anyway.

After all if my neighbor is inconvenient and I decide to choke him to death, it's my body I'm choking him with, right? This way we can abort some people who deserve it.

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One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 3:00 pm 
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Personally, I think abortion is wrong, and shouldn't be done.

Personally, I'll support abortion to the hilt, if needs be, until there is a better alternative.

Adopt? Good luck. Just how many kids out there are waiting for adoption? How many of them will end up being wards of the court until their 18, and then put out on their own, just because nobody wanted to adopt them? How many children who were aborted would have ended up further overcrowding our adoption system?

I'm not saying abortion is right; I'm saying: Give me something better, then we can talk about getting rid of abortion.

----------

Also, if you get pregnant, and get an abortion, thats fine. If you get pregnant again, and get another abortion, you have problems and should speak with a counsler. If you get pregnant a third time, and have a third abortion -- it's time to tie the tubes.

Of course, I'm not talking about abortions for medical reasons, or aborting a rape victim (why would they let it get on that long?!).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 5:43 pm 
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Herbal Enema wrote:
Adopt? Good luck. Just how many kids out there are waiting for adoption? How many of them will end up being wards of the court until their 18, and then put out on their own, just because nobody wanted to adopt them? How many children who were aborted would have ended up further overcrowding our adoption system?


I have alot to say on this issue (especially aborionm and fathers) but i dont have time to write it down atm, i will in the morning though. What i do have to say is this; Im pro adoption, my best mate was adopted and although his adopted mother isnt perfect he turned out pretty damn fine all things cosidered.

PTLIS
Fuck you, there is nothing fucking wrong with ovecrowding the system, tahts what its for Fucktard.
(sorry if i sound pissed but basically you're advocating a policy which would have prevented me from having an aquaintance of a GOOD man.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:25 pm 
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OK PTLIS, you are in Australia [Edit: sorry England] , you have no vested interest in someone knocking the AMERICAN adoption system.

Patrick, I have never heard of an infant put up for adoption and not being snatched up immediately. A girl I knew in Abliene decided to pu her kid up for adoption and had a family in two weeks. Kids get stuck waiting if they become wards of the court when they are 2 or so, for some reason, no-one wants to adopt an older kid. If we lowered our expectations on how rich someone had to be to adopt then we would approve alot more. The adoption system seems to be of the opinion that it can be extremely picky about who it sends children to. And with infants it can, because there is a long waiting list of approved people waiting for one.

Here's a thought, who ever came up with the idea that women have a right to do what they want with their own body. Go do illegal drugs with it and let me know how many rights you have. They won't let you commit suicide if they can stop it either. There is no legal basis for it but they qote that like it's in the Bible and the Constitution.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


Last edited by Clay_Allison on Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:34 pm 
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Uh, Clay. PTLIS is from England. I have also noticed that it is the younger who usually gets adopted as well...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 7:44 pm 
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Younger children get adopted because they're more likely to adapt to their situations. The older you are, the more formed in preset ways you are. Personally, it's my opinion that if you are on welfare and have two children, and get pregnant with a third, after the birth of that one you should be sterilized. This isn't just for women, though- if you're a guy that's fathered three children, that's fucking enough. You won't suddenly get enough money to support the family. We need to face facts- these people will be on welfare for the rest of their lives. We need to stop new people from being born, then we can do a lot more to help those who have had a hard life- not just born into one, but had some misfortune that put them there.

And I feel that sex ed is not comprehensive enough- they teach it in what, 8th grade? People were already sexually active in 7th grade where I was. We need to get to the root of the problem before puberty, not after kids have had time to... experiment, shall we say. By then, it can be too late.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:40 pm 
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I definately agree that it's shit that people will basically become baby factories, just to get more welfare. Fortunately, in my state, at least, there's a cutoff on it. You can have as many kids as you want; however, when they reach a certain age, you've got to go to work.

And Clay, since you don't have breasts or a vagina, then you wouldn't know how much people just suddenly expect a woman to have a baby. Do you have kids? I don't either, but I can readily say that it's a huge responsibility, and should be something planned for. What happens when a woman gets raped, and gets pregnant from it? "Oh, well Bobby, you'll never meet your daddy, because he's in jail for raping me. What's rape? Well, that's when someone forces themselves on you sexually. So you weren't made from love, you were made when I was assaulted."

Personally, if that ever happened, I'd definately get an abortion. It may be other women's bag to keep their kids concieved of rape. But y'know, that's them. They're not me.

And you're damn right about the drug thing. First off, taking drugs is illegal. Even if the fetus is going to be aborted, it's reckless endangerment. If someone really wanted to push it, they could have the mother convicted. Again, it goes back to responsibility.

And I don't by this "Well, if a woman has a right to chose what she does wiht her body, then everyone else does too." There are always exceptions to the rule. Because a condom breaks, I don't want to pay for that mistake. Because my pill doesn't work, I don't want to pay for that. Because I was raped, I don't want to pay for that. It wasn't my fault, I was being responsible. But neither am I going to cut an 18 year long chunk out of what I planned to do with my life because of an accident, or a crime committed against me. I'll put it up for adoption, or, if worst comes to worst, I'll abort.

Women shouldn't be expected to be brood mares, just because they have the plumbing to do it. Put a womb in a guy and make him go through a pregnancy or two, and then I'll see how many guys protest abortion or contraceptives.

-edit- I didn't mean to sound nasty or rude to you, Clay, I'm just trying to prove a point. Don't take it the wrong way ^_^

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 9:27 pm 
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S'alright Ryven, remember that I said I wanted ONLY THRID TRIMESTER ABORTIONS illegal, I think that if you were raped or a condom broke you could morning-after it or at least get it done within SIX MONTHS!!!!

It was in my first post so I'm sure you forgot I said that.

I don't have kids, remember I told you I've never even had sex, so no I don't know, but I think even the first trimester is long enough to make a decision.

Give me a little credit, I come off as being cold but I do care about these things, I am trying to balance it to make my views as fair as possible.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:42 pm 
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*scrolls up*

Ah, you did. My bad, sorry. My short term memory's a bit lacking, it seems. :oops: But yeah, definately, if you're pregnant up to 6 months, then you've have plenty of time to abort, and by then, it's too late.

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