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Well? Click the link, then answer me this.
Are you for it? 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Are you against it? 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Do you not care? 23%  23%  [ 5 ]
Should George Lucas be anally raped for inflicting that movie on the unsuspecting public? 45%  45%  [ 10 ]
. . . I'm sorry, did you say something? 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 22
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 Post subject: ATTACK OF THE CLONES (Guest debate, and a poll too)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:58 am 
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ATTACK OF THE CLONES

Enjoy, and post some replies here. I wanna see what you guys think on this whole issue.

Since I have to do a research paper on the ethical and moral concerns raised by this topic, I figure this won't hurt.

And, dear God, though it's so so easy with this topic, do not enact Godwin's Law. I will scream. That means YOU, Abunai . . . and you too, Dominic and Ezelek.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:45 pm 
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I don't like cloning, simply because there's too many humans out there already that I can't stand, and the prospect of them being cloned makes me want to load up my thirty-rounders and go to town. Actually, it's more that I don't like humans in general, so anything that makes more of them I don't like.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:41 pm 
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Rupert The Guerilla Rat wrote:
Actually, it's more that I don't like humans in general, so anything that makes more of them I don't like.


So you don't like sex?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:12 pm 
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I'm not sure that I understand the need for cloning. A "clone" will never actually replicate the original, otherwise naturally occuring clones (twins) would not have different personalities..I guess narcissism could be one reason to have a clone of onesself..And I could see perhaps wanting to clone a great athlete so that he would be guaranteed to be rich, geniuses such as Galileo and DaVinci.. (if enough DNA could be found)...Hmm I think I have talked myself into liking this idea..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:00 pm 
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I saw a movie the other day, where Peter O'Toole wonderfully played the part of a professor who perfected cloning humans. The movie had less to do with science in particular and definately was about Peter O'Toole's character who was trying to revive his dead wife. One line from a female co-star struck me as poignant; she said to Peter O'Toole: "Can't you see? You're not creating life in this laboratory, you're creating death!"

Science is neutral to all who practice it. It's really cliched, but I think too many people have seen other people misuse science to think well of science in general. They think they are preventing potential disasters by avoiding an avenue of research, but really, they are merely divesting themselves of an avenue of benefit. If scientists are ethical in their research, what's there to fear?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:10 pm 
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Bealz wrote:
I'm not sure that I understand the need for cloning. A "clone" will never actually replicate the original, otherwise naturally occuring clones (twins) would not have different personalities..I guess narcissism could be one reason to have a clone of onesself..And I could see perhaps wanting to clone a great athlete so that he would be guaranteed to be rich, geniuses such as Galileo and DaVinci.. (if enough DNA could be found)...Hmm I think I have talked myself into liking this idea..



Um....but cloning anyone you're not guarenteed to get anything the original has, be it athleticism or genius. So far, from what I know, DNA can make someone tend towards a trait more than usual, but can't make it definite (apart from some genetic disorders....which aren't really traits, but conditions).

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:43 pm 
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God that movie sucked. There was exactly one good moment: when Yoda drops his walking stick and goes apeshit on Duku. The rest was garbage.

You want to watch a good Sci-Fi action flick? Watch Aliens.
You want to watch a good arena battle flick? Watch Gladiator.
You want to watch a good high fantasy flick? Watch Fellowship of the Ring.

You want to watch a good Star Wars film? Watch Empire Strikes Back.

"Apology accepted, Captin Needa."

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:38 am 
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YEAH! Injecting teen angst into Star Wars just killed it. After Harrison Ford and Carey Fischer I had to put up with those two? Fuck them. The guy especially. He was even more of a whiny, obnoxious little shit than Luke, and Luke was bad!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:24 am 
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IcyMonkey wrote:

So you don't like sex?


(Phony imitation Southern accent) Sex for recreation, not procreation!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:35 am 
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Yeah, clones. Then we become like Hi...

*Kitsune shoots Krylex repeatedly


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:21 pm 
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Yeah, Attack of the Clones was a pretty iffy movie. Yoda kicked ass, of course, and I thought the chase through Courascant was awesome, graphics wise. But the whole crappy romance/jealous boyfriend thing between Anakin and Padme was irritating.

*star wars action, blaster fights, lightsaber stuff - ROLLING THROUGH THE GRASS SAPPY MUSIC- blaster fights, lightsaber stuff YODA!*

That's what the movie was like for me. Bleh.

And as for the clones thing, it's just a movie, and if nobody noticed, there was a general air of disdain and discomfort whenever the clones were mentioned in the movies. Which means they weren't really looked at as a good idea. *L*

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:44 am 
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Why is it that Sci-Fi movies today have no intention of allowing good (or any) acting to get in the way of a juvenile, self-indulgent special-effects fest? Bleh.

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One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:06 am 
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And now.. back on topic...

I dont see the point of cloning whatsoever, we already have a perfectly good, working way of making new poeple ----> SEX,
and i dont see why we need another one, the clone wouldn't be identical to the clonee,( or whatever the person they cloned is called) as their personality and the way they think is based on their experiences and interactions throughout life..

Also, i dont think it would be fair toward the clone, as they would be forced to live through their lives as a 'test-subject'...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:27 am 
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It would be less identical than an identical twin, a lot of shit happens to a fetus betwen the Zygote stage and birth, that depends upon what the mother eats, drinks, what poisons are in the environment, including ambient poisons like pesticides and introdiced toxins like alcohol. Identical twins get about the same dose of everything. The difference between one being brought to term in the city (industrial pollution) and another in the country (agricultural pollution, which is much worse) would be considerable.

Also, if one mother were diabetic, or a vegetarian, and the diet differed that would change things a great deal as well.

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One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:12 am 
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Ryoko, the point is mainly so that we can help to cure some of the ailments that currently have our scientists stumped. Stem cells created during cloning can be used to make basically any part of a human body. If nothing else, it would be a new heart for someone who needs it, or a new kidney, or even spinal tissue. The possibilities are actually almost limitless. It could easily lead to a lasting cure for muscular dystrophy or even possibly diabetes (transplanting a pancres that produces insulin properly) Hampering cloning only reduces the progress we as people make. As for being identical, they would look pretty much the same as long as both were raised healthy as the have teh exact same DNA. However, one difference would be their mitochondrial DNA. That DNA specifically comes from the mitochondria, so it would be identical to whatever mother the egg that had the nucleus transplanted into it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:58 am 
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yeah, cloning doesn't mean growing copies of humans to just let run around the place and join the SS (so easy) but much of it is 'medical' ie you clone a person to a certain stage then cut up the stuff you've got and use it to cure them of all sorts of things

if you're going god-squad on them having souls or not, you could claim that as an identical clone, they either have no soul or share that of the clone's 'parent' so 'killing' the grown tissue and using it on the 'parent' has no ethical problems, it's like a skin graft from your arse to your elbow as all of the material is from you in the first place and is only 'alive' because of, and to serve your needs

butthen if you're letting crap like god get in your way, get the hell out of science and go suicide bombing instead

and as for Attack Of The Clones, it should have been called "screw being a Jedi, i wat to get me a piece of her ass"

(this message has been brough to you by the deprivation of certain chemicals that i'm soon to rectify)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:21 am 
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ollie wrote:
and as for Attack Of The Clones, it should have been called "screw being a Jedi, I want to get me a piece of her ass"


That wouldn't have been a long thought process at all for me! Sorry Kenobi, love to hang around with you, but, uh, the force just led me down another path, yeah. Drop by and watch a game of Trandoshan Soccer sometime and have a beer.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:42 pm 
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ollie wrote:
yeah, cloning doesn't mean growing copies of humans to just let run around the place and join the SS (so easy) but much of it is 'medical' ie you clone a person to a certain stage then cut up the stuff you've got and use it to cure them of all sorts of things

if you're going god-squad on them having souls or not, you could claim that as an identical clone, they either have no soul or share that of the clone's 'parent' so 'killing' the grown tissue and using it on the 'parent' has no ethical problems, it's like a skin graft from your arse to your elbow as all of the material is from you in the first place and is only 'alive' because of, and to serve your needs

butthen if you're letting crap like god get in your way, get the hell out of science and go suicide bombing instead

and as for Attack Of The Clones, it should have been called "screw being a Jedi, i wat to get me a piece of her ass"

(this message has been brough to you by the deprivation of certain chemicals that i'm soon to rectify)


Clones have rights too!

/me sees a new political movement in the making

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:58 pm 
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Okay so when did any of you last play "Paranoia". That game kicked ass.

especially dealing with idiots like General Rip-U-PRT 6.

Sex? Yes please!!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:58 pm 
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"Congratulations. You have just been cut in half by a rusty chainsaw, but you successfully protected the cute little kitten. Mark off a clone."

God that game was fun... You couldn't take it serious at all, or you'd go as mad as your characters...

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