Citizen's Rights Trampled

P51mus · **Posted:** Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:50 pm

http://www.oregonlive.com/letters/orego ... 879330.xml

Quote:

Citizen's rights trampled by FBI

03/25/03

I was shocked to read that Maher Mofied "Mike" Hawash, a friend who worked for me for many years at Intel Corp., was "detained" by the FBI and the Joint Terrorism Task Force, apparently because of donations he made more than three years ago to what he believed was a completely legitimate charity ("FBI, joint terrorism agents search home in Hillsboro," March 21).

I was equally shocked that The Oregonian chose to omit from its story that Hawash is a longtime U.S. citizen. I think many of your readers would be surprised to learn that our government can detain indefinitely a U.S. citizen, especially one with a wife, three children, a job and deep roots in our community.

"Material witnesses" such as Hawash are being held in maximum-security federal prisons, despite the fact that they are charged with no crime.

Americans are taught that the Constitution protects us against arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, and that our freedom and these constitutional liberties are what we are fighting for in Iraq and elsewhere, yet one of our neighbors can be taken from his home or office and held without charge for weeks or months.

It is shameful that the Oregonian chose to report this as though Hawash were a criminal, rather than as a citizen whose rights are being trampled.

STEVEN McGEADY Northeast Portland

Anyone know of the article he refers to?

ollie · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:48 pm

"arbitrary arrest" "because of donations he made"

so, not arbitrary then?

anyway, hit <a href="http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?sconfig=olive&xpath.category_letter=&xpath.pubdate=04%2F07%2F03+04%2F06%2F03+04%2F05%2F03+04%2F04%2F03+04%2F03%2F03+04%2F02%2F03+04%2F01%2F03+03%2F31%2F03+03%2F30%2F03+03%2F29%2F03+03%2F28%2F03+03%2F27%2F03+03%2F26%2F03+03%2F25%2F03&count=20&xref=7&xpath.any=Hawash&x=9&y=5">here</A> for the info on it etc, try hitting the website of the newspaper and searching...

P51mus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:51 pm

Well, he makes a donation to a charity that he believes is perfectly legitimate several years ago and is arrested now. He didn't think the charity had any ties to terrorism....and according to one of those articles the charity is only being investigated for links to terrorism. That is a VERY weak basis to put someone in jail by.

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index. ... onian?lcps

Quote:

"He's been reporting that he has not been questioned or interrogated," said Steven McGeady, Hawash's former boss, who has posted a Web site -- freemikehawash.org -- with information about the case. "He doesn't know why he's there."

Um....when you put someone in jail....you're supposed to tell them why they're there....
You know in the US we have something called "due process", it's to keep people from being unlawfully imprisioned...
....so where is it now?

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index. ... gonian?ede

Quote:

"Our friend has fallen into some kind of 'Alice in Wonderland' meets Franz Kafka," Hawash's former Intel boss, Steven McGeady, told The New York Times. "You hear about this happening in other countries and to immigrants and then to American citizens. And finally you hear about it happening to someone you know. It's scary."

...

revolutio · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 5:11 pm

Yeah that handy Patriots Act (oh the irony) got rid of all that pesky due process and fair trial shit.

P51mus · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:13 pm

I'm waiting for MiB to either find something to nitpick about the source, or some miniscule little thing in the article, instead of trying to see the point of it.

Ryven · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:13 pm

I'm reminded of the Salem Witch Trials. Bleh.

"A person is smart. People are stupid, panicky animals." - Men In Black (Ironically).

See what happens when ya let fear override common sense?

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:38 pm

Damn, MiB...where the hell are you? And don't say that none of the people are being arrested for no reason, or no good reason. Just argue the damn point, if you can.

The Man In Black · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:39 am

Sorry, can't talk, I'm being arressted for ties to terrorism. I would just like to let you guys know I completely support the patr- what? NO MR. FBI MAN! NO! DON'T TAKE ME AWA-

~end~

MrWarMage · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:58 am

MiB, I would like to get you on contract to bottle that irony. It's very tasty.

---------------
-MrWarMage is a legal alien. but not on this planet.

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:34 pm

/Grumbles incoherently about precisely the people who wouldn't be affected by this making fun of people who complain (and rightly so) of it.

/Or perhaps not so incoherently.

Clay_Allison · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:38 am

Mind you, while I am a blodthirsty, pro-war, pro-military, Jingoist (whatever that is supposed to be), I am not in any mood to trust the federal government for any reason, to do anything except protect the public from Foriegn enemies. The Patriot pisses me off, the bullshit rhetoric that supports it pisses me off (Constitution being used against us, Judas fucking Priest!) Terrorism doesn't scare me, doesn't even concern me. I'd rather deal with all of the terrorists in the world than an out of control government agency. The IRS is out of control already, every person who testified against them in the last investigation of it was audited! Any Homeland Security Holy Office Of The Inquisition will be worse and weilding inprisonment without and execution without right to council or a jury trial! This thing gets started in earnest and welcome back to Joseph McCarthy's Paradise. When political opression isn't enough, they can start on personal grudges.

Suddenly Osama and the raghead boys are looking alot less scary. We are not far away, boys and girls. Russia had Iosef Vissarionovich Stalin, China had Mao Tse Tung, between them they killed WELL over 100 million. We could get one of our own unless we guard our freedoms like they goddamn mean something to us, instead of rolling over because we want the government to take care of us. Anyone who would trade freedom for security is a coward and deserves NEITHER! That is my final word.

krylex · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:55 am

Jingoism is being overly patriotic for no apparant reason. Its kind of like someone jumping on the patriotic bandwagon, like ater 9/11. The moment dubya said to put up flags, flag companies sold out. The people who bought 100 of them and wallpapered the house are being jingoistic...

Unum Plurum · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:09 am

But how does that fit in to the war on Iraq? I mean, if you don't trust the government (except to defend the country), then how can you trust it not to take advantage of post-war Iraq?

Honest question, mind you; I'm just trying to figure out the logic.

The Man In Black · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:35 am

That wasn't making fun Unum you idiot, it was an ironic point.

*smacks Unum*

Anyway, the reason we can trust the gov't in Iraq is simply it would be suicide in terms of terrorism, public support, etc. etc., should they "take advantage" of their power in Iraq post-war. All of this BS antiwar people have been spewed about "well if we attack Iraq MORE terrorists will appear"? Think what happens if all the dumbass propaganda is proved true.

So, unless you dehumanize Bush into some robotic idiot who always does things solely for his oil buddies (which, btw, you have and is also why I fully expect you to claim this is a good reason to be anti-war) and are ignoring that, as a human being with loads of responsibility heaped up on his shoulders he actually DOES have some care, and DOES want to prevent further terrorist attacks (Unum: "Ignore? I never even thought of Bush as a human being, just some vaugue 'other' that I've been ordered to hate") and, further more, this (democratizing Iraq) has been exactly what the hawks in Washington (i.e. Bush's advisors) have declared as the best plan and have advocated throughout the Clinton administration, well then I guess you don't have much ammo.

As to giving contracts to rebuild Iraq to exclusively American (prolly a couple coalition countries that lent a hand to) ...whats wrong with that?

But you either didn't know that or ignored that, right?

-MiB

MrWarMage · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:23 am

I wanna move into a house between MiB and Clay, so I can root for them when the anti-anti's come slamming up their driveway in armored VW microbusses. Painted with puffy-paint protests and daisies, no doubt.

Two reasons... I'd have excellent sniper position on the aggressive neo-hippy wanna-be-beatniks, and I agree so strongly with their logic that I can only make snide amusing side commentary.

--------------------
-MrWarMage believes in freedom of ME. and also that you have the right to your opinions. But get a GRIP!!

Forevergrey · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:59 am

But the anti-anti's will never come. Protesting at a private residence would prove nothing and make then look like dickhe.... Arrgghh... help me, I'm falling down the gaping hole in my logic.....

MrWarMage · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:32 am

*RAGING APPLAUSE*

Grey that was great!! I hope you don't mind that I'm getting infectious giggles, because I think I am clinically depressed and haven't had enough sleep yet.

hehehehe that was seriously amusing :)

Thanks for the smile.

-------------------
-MrWarMage needs more Whip-Its.

The Man In Black · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:37 am

[quote="Unum Plurum"]/Grumbles incoherently about precisely the people who wouldn't be affected by this making fun of people who complain (and rightly so) of it.

/Or perhaps not so incoherently.[/quote]

Whats this?

Unum: Pasty white guy.

MiB: Brown.

Who's more likely to be affected by the patriot act again, you raging dickhead? Oh wait, ITS A CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY ALL LEFT-WING PEOPLE IN AMERICA!

...if you believe that, I have a lovely story about how the jews are controlling the USA that I'm sure you'll love. It has just as much (actually probably more) info backing it up at THAT ONE.

Now excuse me, I need to go rape 3rd world countries of resources, kill my quota of innocent civilians, and kick a half dozen puppies before noon today. Ahh, such is the life of a patriot.

-MiB

Lifyre · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:41 am

Ranted radicals would be more affected by the USA patriot act but just because there are more left wing wackos out there doesn't mean they are being singled out...

And whats wrong with raping 3rd world countries, killing innocents, and kicking puppies?

-Lifyre

Clay_Allison · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:07 am

Unum Plurum wrote:

But how does that fit in to the war on Iraq? I mean, if you don't trust the government (except to defend the country), then how can you trust it not to take advantage of post-war Iraq?

Honest question, mind you; I'm just trying to figure out the logic.

THe answer is that I am a Machiavellian, I don't much CARE about postwar Iraq. We did better by Germany after WWII than any other country in world history, capable of military conquest at least, would have. That's good enough for me. We certainly won't commit human-rights abuses on Hussein's level, so how can we really go wrong, Iraq can only go up from here.

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