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 Post subject: Human evolution
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:32 pm 
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Here's something interesting to discuss. I thought of it while I was watching "Walking with Cavemen" the other night:

Just say, for sake of argument, evolution truly is the answer of how we came to be. If early humans' progress was determined by brain size and their ability to make their own tools and weapons, and not use what's lying around as earlier humans did, then are most humans today, in fact, superior? Sure, we can all grasp the concept of using the complicated things around us, but most people aren't mechanically inclined, and find it very difficult to just make something out of the blue for their own use, and in fact, only use what's already been made for them. So is most of the human race currently less superior in enginuity than our caveman ancestors? Discuss among yourselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 7:48 pm 
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Humans today are definitely more intelligent than our caveman ancestors. Most of the world population, however, doesn't use that intelligence. The majority of the people are uninventive and simply leech off the innovations of the truly brilliant.

That's not to say that they aren't productive. Granted, some aren't, but a non-inventive worker who is part of a solid system can still contribute significantly to society.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:23 pm 
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Hmmm... I would say that collectively human beings have become more intelligent, but in some ways each individual human being is not as ingenuitive as your average Cro-Magnon. However, that's mainly because individual humans depend on society much more now than they did in the past. I think that there's been a trend in the human species for the past million years or so away from individual independence and towards more of a kind of hive existence - the human race as a whole is much more like an ant colony than it was a few hundred thousand years ago.

The most noticeable example of this is specialization. Whereas even a few hundred years ago one could basically learn almost all there was to learn in every field of human inquiry, from philosophy to mathematics to science, today most, if not all, academics specialise in a very particular category of study. Thus the collective knowledge of the human race (considered as a unified organism) versus the knowledge of a single individual is roughly comparable to the collective intelligence of an ant colony versus the intelligence of a single ant, or even the intellegence of the human brain versus the intelligence of a single human neuron.

This is a social change rather than an actual physical change; we still have the same instincts, and that's why we're not as harmonious as your average ant colony, which doesn't have to deal with internal disputes or anything like that. However, technology has been aiding in this collectivisation, and there may come a day when the human race can be considered a single intelligent entity.

Side note: I remember watching PBS documentary on evolution that speculated that the human brain may be a product of sexual selection. It seems that many biologists think we're much more intelligent than would have actually been useful to us. Our large brains could be like a peacock's feathers, or a deer's antlers; female homonids might have been more attracted to intelligent males. I thought that was a kind of interesting idea.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:30 pm 
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If you think about it, the bulk of our species' evolution is by sexual selection.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:04 pm 
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'Nother thing to think about: Are we still evolving? Procedures have been developed to give genetic children to the infertile, and people with previously fatal diseases can be kept alive long enough long enough to reproduce. The fact of greater social dependance also means that each human has a 'safety net'. Just because you are shortsighted no longer means that sabretooth tiger is going to eat you before the rest of the tribe. The fittest is no longer the most likely to reproduce.

Linked in with this is the fact that while humans are more evolved than early humans, and thus possibly more creative/ingenuetive (is that a word?), there is less of a pressing need to use those skills. There's no burnign preassure at the back of your mind to create a weapon when there are no sabretooth tigers to potentially eat you.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:01 am 
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'Nother thing to think about: Are we still evolving? Procedures have been developed to give genetic children to the infertile, and people with previously fatal diseases can be kept alive long enough long enough to reproduce. The fact of greater social dependance also means that each human has a 'safety net'. Just because you are shortsighted no longer means that sabretooth tiger is going to eat you before the rest of the tribe. The fittest is no longer the most likely to reproduce.

Yes, humanity is still evolving. There will always be situations where natural selection takes over--it's just that constant global natural selection, a means to evolution, has ceased.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:06 pm 
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i'd say the human species is constantly evolving, but it's moving at such an infinitessimally slow rate, at least biologically, that it's difficult to measure. social evolution on the other hand, is moving at a much more rapid pace than most people can keep up with. just within the past hundred years we've evolved more socially and intellectually than we have in the past thousand. and our biological evolution simply hasn't gone along at the same pace. we've developed several new technologies, though i'd say the biggest question is whether or not we've truly evolved mentally to the point where we're responsible enough as a society to handle everything. as someone else posted earlier, the majority of humanity has advanced a great deal while there's still individuals who aren't much more intelligent than your average cro magnon

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 9:36 pm 
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NeoJapan wrote:
just within the past hundred years we've evolved more socially and intellectually than we have in the past thousand.


Have we? Just because our developments make us 'better' (according to our biased viewpoint), doesnt mean that the social and intellectual evolutions of the past thousand years are 'more' or 'less' than those of the past hundred.

Incidentally, does it seem to anyone else that this debate rests entirely on your definition of evolution? Am I gonna be banned from this board for questioning everyones definitions of everything after every post?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:34 am 
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well, the way i see evolution is it's how a society or species changes over the course of time, whether it be genetically, mentally or socially. not very much of a definition but it's simple and straight to the point. >:)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 11:58 am 
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NeoJapan:

I'd say that "social evolution" isn't what this debate is about. This one is focused on genetic (and thus physical) evolution, not sociology.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 12:08 pm 
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Actually, considering the question on whether humans were more then or now, socialogy could fit in. Society is a creation of the human mind, is it not? It could be used in the arguement; for example, whether we were better off within a society that we have now, or the society that existed back then. Hell, people have even made points about the differences earlier in their posts.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 4:07 pm 
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Here is an interesting essay I found a while back about evolution. I am not really interested in joining the debate, but I thought you might enjoy reading this.

http://www.escapingamerica.com/e_humanorigin.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:32 pm 
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That's a very interesting essay. And it makes sense, at least to me. Like how neanderthals didn't survive because they only had the capacity to remember what they had done, and in remembering that, they could survive day to day. They didn't, however, have the capacity for imagination or creativity. So, in a sense, they couldn't imagine what it would be like three weeks from now, hungry and thirsty. They only knew the here and now, in the moment, perhaps a few days ahead of time.

In short, they couldn't think ahead to the future, and thereby plan for it as well as the other offshoot of humans could.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2003 6:42 am 
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Kylaer wrote:

I'd say that "social evolution" isn't what this debate is about. This one is focused on genetic (and thus physical) evolution, not sociology.


well, the first post wasn't exactly specific on whether or not humanity was evolving genetically. it just said whether or not we as a species have advanced past the neanderthals. neither was really specified, so i took it to be open for debate.

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