ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:04 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Anti-war movement earns some kudos
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:49 pm 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
Quote:
"I want to thank the Australian people who supported our cause when they demonstrated against the policies of George Bush. Say thank you to all of them,"


Who spoke this line? A man named Sawad.

Who is one of the two men accused of building the bomb which killed 202 people in the nightclub bombing in Bali.

Link to story.

Another endorsement of what fine, upstanding people the anti-war crowd are...and a reminder of exactly what they're standing up for.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:31 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3447
Location: New York
And how is this relevant to anything again?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:17 pm 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
It's relevant because it's important to remember who considers whom an ally.

As for why it's here, the reason is that when I post things such as this in Unrelated, I get bitched at. This is the forum for controversial stuff, is it not?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:22 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3447
Location: New York
Kylaer wrote:
It's relevant because it's important to remember who considers whom an ally.


Really, let's not play that game now. In that case, I could point out all the terrorists who are, or have been, allies of the right-wing in the past. I won't sink to that level, however; just because evil people think you're helping them doesn't mean you yourself are evil.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:35 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:38 pm
Posts: 3148
Location: Gay bar at the end of the universe
Kylaer wrote:
It's relevant because it's important to remember who considers whom an ally.

As for why it's here, the reason is that when I post things such as this in Unrelated, I get bitched at. This is the forum for controversial stuff, is it not?

But I thought terrorists were lieing, schemeing bastards whose words are not to be trusted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:27 pm 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
IcyMonkey wrote:
just because evil people think you're helping them doesn't mean you yourself are evil.


No, it doesn't. I don't consider the majority of the "anti-war" people evil; rather, they're horribly, horribly misguided, and think that "fighting The Man" by protests such as these is an excellent way of boosting their egos and giving themselves a sense of purpose. Some of them actually mean well, but haven't bothered to learn the facts of the issues; others, the worst type, know the facts all too well, but protest anyway because they aren't anti-war at all; they're on the other side.

However, although the protestors might not be evil just because a terrorist thinks they're helping them, there's a good chance that they actually are helping that terrorist. Today's protestors, much like their ideological forebears during Vietnam, are actively aiding the enemy, whether they know it or not. The terrorists, like the North Vietnamese, have no chance of defeating the U.S. or its allies in open conflict; the best they can do is to wear away at morale until the U.S./allies say "Screw this, we're going home," and leave [whatever region is in conflict - Iraq, Afghanistan, or in this case Indonesia] ripe for the construction of another shari'ah theocracy.

The anti-war protests, to them, are a sign that their tactics are working. Seeing the resolve of the U.S. (or, in this case, Australia) apparently shaken gives the terrorists new hope that they may indeed be able to force a withdrawel.

Quote:
But I thought terrorists were lieing, schemeing bastards whose words are not to be trusted.


If Sawad had said "I didn't do it," in the face of the evidence against him, that would be a blatant and obvious lie. But lying typically has a reason; in the above case, it would be trying to save himself from the death penalty. But what would be the reason for thanking the anti-war protestors? If it were a lie, it gives him no benefit - since the anti-war protests are useless, he has no need to praise them, because even if the protestors increased their efforts it would still be useless. If his statement were a lie, he might as well not have made it - so why would he make it?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:15 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:38 pm
Posts: 3148
Location: Gay bar at the end of the universe
Kylaer wrote:
If Sawad had said "I didn't do it," in the face of the evidence against him, that would be a blatant and obvious lie. But lying typically has a reason; in the above case, it would be trying to save himself from the death penalty. But what would be the reason for thanking the anti-war protestors? If it were a lie, it gives him no benefit - since the anti-war protests are useless, he has no need to praise them, because even if the protestors increased their efforts it would still be useless. If his statement were a lie, he might as well not have made it - so why would he make it?
Saying that people against war are supporting terrorism would make more people be pro-war, right? So maybe he wanted the war to happen. He might have known that another US invasion would bring escalated violence against Westerners and new recruits to terrorist organizations.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:11 am 
Offline
Addict

Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:08 pm
Posts: 2115
Location: Lair of the Internet Anti-Hero
Mmmm... lets brass up some more Islamic fucks, booyaa!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: WTF?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:12 am 
Offline
Tourist

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:10 am
Posts: 25
Location: The Southside...naturally
Kylaer, what is wrong with you?

I protest against war because, basically, I love life. There, I said it, I'm a bleeding heart liberal.
Doubtless, by saying that I think people have a right to live and to be free from suffering, I'm virtually shitting on everything you stand for, but hey...

On the other hand, it seems like your whole imperative and reason for being is a crusade against Islam, and an obsession with the vaunted, "War against Terror." I mean, your avatar, your tagline, everything you say...

Why such a single-track mind?

_________________
Dave S
DNI by BDM05

http://www.legendsofthesouthside.com Things happen in Glasgow every day that would blow your mind.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:45 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:39 am
Posts: 1756
Location: The border of civilization
As an Israelian, I feel I have to take a part in this discussion.
First we should devide the Islamic terrorists into two groups. One group is like a gigentic maifa organization. The second group is made out of poor unemploid pepole that have nothing to lose.
I think that the only way to deal with the first group is by brout force. Fight fire with fire.
To deal with the second group, all you need to do is to give them a place to work. The more money they have, the more they have to lose.

_________________
Warning! The owner of this property is armed and willing to defend life, liberty and property.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:21 am 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
RedKnight: Isn't it obvious? I'm a hateful far-right-wing Islamophobe Republican who wants to commit genocide in pursuit of oooooooiiiiiiiilllllllll.

Hmm. That doesn't make for good PR.

Let me put it this way: do you know the quote from the Japanese admiral Yamamoto, about the "sleeping giant?" Well, the giant got stung on 9/11/2001, but it didn't fully wake up. Exacerbating this is the fact that the politically-correct members of the government, media, and academia are doing everything in their power to send the populace back to sleep, trying to convince us that Islamic jihad (lower-case "j" to separate the world-wide movement from the specific terrorist organization) is not actually a threat and that if we appease them they will go away and never bother us again.

I am opposing them. I want the populace awake, and I want them to realize what the threat is, where it's coming from, and what can be done about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:58 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:38 pm
Posts: 3148
Location: Gay bar at the end of the universe
Kylaer wrote:
I am opposing them. I want the populace awake, and I want them to realize what the threat is, where it's coming from, and what can be done about it.

"Reality is the leading cause of stress amongst those in touch with it."

Go to sleep.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:27 am 
Offline
Tourist

Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:10 am
Posts: 25
Location: The Southside...naturally
Quote:
RedKnight: Isn't it obvious? I'm a hateful far-right-wing Islamophobe Republican who wants to commit genocide in pursuit of oooooooiiiiiiiilllllllll.


Oh, thank God. I can fit you neatly into my worldview now with no disruptions.

_________________
Dave S
DNI by BDM05

http://www.legendsofthesouthside.com Things happen in Glasgow every day that would blow your mind.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:31 pm 
Offline
Local
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 448
Location: Yet another city of degenerate fools
Damn you, Kylaer, for turning me from a bleeding-heart liberal a moderate-liberalish person instead.

But I'm still against the war.

_________________
"I have asked God for only one thing in my life
and that is that he should make people laugh at my enemies.
"And he did."
-Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:02 am 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
Unum Plurum wrote:
Damn you, Kylaer, for turning me from a bleeding-heart liberal a moderate-liberalish person instead.

But I'm still against the war.


I'm truly glad to hear that I've had an effect on you. Would you please tell me what it was that convinced you to change your views?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3730
Location: DELETED FOR SECURITY REASONS
I'm curious: if you love life and liberty, why are you fine with so many people around the world who very casually take both, and we have the power to prevent or at least fix that and do not do this?

If anything, Redknight, your views would demand that the US do about 1,000 times more interventions than they are doing now. One cannot claim to want people to have life and liberty when one is protesting a war which removes someone who champions the cause AGAINST both ideals for millions of people.

Regaurdless of Bush's personal motives, which I really don't give a damn about, a couple million people more under democracy and able to voice their opinions is a good thing, in my mind.

As well...why are you not out protesting all that crap happening in Africa? Why is America the only one that robs life now? Or at least the only one that robs it that is worthy of your attention. Perhaps those several million tutsis would have something to say about how great it is to have the US *not* intervene in other peoples' affairs.

Oh wait. They're dead...because we would have had to kill people to save them.

-MiB

_________________
delenda est communism


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:35 pm 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 820
Location: An Unforgiving World Overrun by Poverty, Drug Abuse, Nepotism, and Ninjas...
I consider myself a moderate, and I used to support the war because I did think it was the right thing to do at the time. Granted, I didn't like how the war was handled at times, but I did think it was for the best. Like MIB said, a few more people under democracy=a good thing.

But then I remembered something.

"What about all the other countries with problems like this?"

Let’s face it; it's impossible to keep track of them all. The US doesn't have nearly enough resources to intervene play world crusader by itself. Taking care of the numerous world crises’ that pop up should be the responsibility of the UN, with the countries involved actually cooperating together and helping get read of these problems.

Whether or not this will actually work, though, is an entirely different matter...

_________________
<sarevock> I think my eyes started bleeding.
<NebbieQ> Bleeding is just another word for love.
<sarevock> ¬¬
* sarevock runs away from NebbieQ
<NebbieQ> But I just want to make you love me. ;_;


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:11 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3730
Location: DELETED FOR SECURITY REASONS
The UN minus the US has less military resources than the US.

We are the only world's superpower, and we're the only one that can handle even a small portion of these things. Anyone who claims to value life and liberty above all should be pushing publically for us to intervene in as many of these situations as is feasable.

The main point, Nebula, was that it is absurd to be anti-war due to humanitarian reasons- its already quite clear the Iraqi people were in a lot more danger from Saddam than from us. Saddam has killed millions of his citizens- we have killed at most thousands, and by accident, not on purpose.

-MiB

_________________
delenda est communism


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:24 pm 
Offline
Native

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 903
Nebula Queen: In a perfect world things would go the way you say, and a perfect UN should and would handle such matters in an optimal way.

Unfortunately, we don't live in such a world, and the UN of our world is the one that allowed 7000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys to get massacred by Serb troops, in a UN "safe zone" with UN troops within a short distance (see "Srebrenica;" the commander on location wanted to fight to protect the Bosnians, but his superiors told him to sit tight and let them be slaughtered).

The UN of our world is a place where Libya can chair the Human Rights Commission (and some of the other members are Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and Zimbabwe), and where pre-Gulf-War-II Iraq and Iran can co-chair the Disarmament Convention. The UN simply is not a viable entity.

As for "Why Iraq and not Liberia etc. etc.," the answer is that there were factors present that made Iraq of importance to the U.S., whereas Liberia doesn't have those factors (support of terrorism both Palestinian and otherwise, being a threat to neighboring nations, the required-to-prevent-genocide U.S. enforcement of the "no-fly" zone that was bleeding the USAF of money and man-hours).

Unlike some other pro-war people (and, it seems, like virtually all of the anti-war people), I disagree with the "It was good enough to free the Iraqi people" statement. Iraqi lives are not worth American ones. If Saddam had never attacked other countries, never built his chemical-weapon stockpiles and tried for even greater weapons, and never supported terrorism -- if, on the other hand, he had simply acted like Charles Taylor or Robert Mugabe and turned his own nation into a hellhole -- I would be anti-war.

And the far-leftists would probably be pro-war, because it would be a "cause," and if there's one thing the far-leftists love it's a cause


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:52 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 1558
Location: Santa Cruz
Kylaer wrote:
Unlike some other pro-war people (and, it seems, like virtually all of the anti-war people), I disagree with the "It was good enough to free the Iraqi people" statement. Iraqi lives are not worth American ones. If Saddam had never attacked other countries, never built his chemical-weapon stockpiles and tried for even greater weapons, and never supported terrorism -- if, on the other hand, he had simply acted like Charles Taylor or Robert Mugabe and turned his own nation into a hellhole -- I would be anti-war.


Not to be a dick, but that, with the exception of "supporting terrorism" (and that much less than certain other powers), is precisely what Hussein did do over the last eleven years. Need I remind you that we still haven't found any weapons of mass destruction? Production and delivery systems, sure, a few of them, but that could <i>at best</i> be used to support a nebulous threat at some time in the future, whereas the pro-war types were insistent on a severe and immediate threat that simply didn't exist.

Yes, Hussein built up chemical weapons stockpiles, did some research into producing nukes and bio-weapons, and attacked other nations, but this all happened prior to Gulf War I. If we give so much of a shit about decades-old crimes that people (and countries) have already been punished for, why aren't we still bombing Serbia, Iran, Vietnam, North Korea, et cetera?

Note that I am not precisely anti-war; however, it does piss me off when pro-war people start beating the drum on issues that, to the best of our knowledge, <i>don't fucking exist</i>.

P-M


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group