ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:26 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 187 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:38 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 2428
Location: In the ether, Hand of DM poised for enervation at will
Tyhm wrote:
I'd sooner my daughter be taught by a potential rapist who's being constantly monitored than risk that her bus driver's a potential who never came forward, but it's a lesser of two evils situation - now that I see there is reason beyond simple ignorance and hatred in the counterargument, I am at peace.


Glad you're at peace, but I still don't agree in the slightest. Not only would it be a waste of school funds to constantly monitor a potential rapist, once word got out, students would be pulled out of that school almost immediately. Because, let's face it, children all have a knack of finding out stuff they shouldn't know. If they see Mr. Johnson is being constantly monitored, they're gonna keep poking around until they either find the answer or make up one of their own. I should know. I was a kid once, no dah.

It's not very responsible on the school's part to keep a potential threat around children because they're wasting school funds, which could be used to, oh, I dunno, hire more teachers, get more books, ect; on getting a babysitter for a potential child rapist. They can spend their money in better ways, without putting their kids in danger.

_________________
The scent of Binturong musk is often compared to that of warm popcorn.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:15 pm 
Offline
Tourist
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:20 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Up a goddamn mountain
Sorry MiB, I meant to say that you mentioned once the statistics were good for a potential child molestor in a normal job behaving himself when everyone knows his address, phone number, license plate number and car. In which case no, it wouldn't help that he's getting random inspections. In such a world that random inspections are an assurance of inactivitiy (I can imagine no such world, but let's say for the sake of argument one could exist), that'd be enough - there's no penalty for coming forward except the spot checks, there's a major penalty for not coming forward, so everyone capable of causality decisions comes forward.

Once again - Potential child molestors in the classrooms would not be a good thing. Personally, I'd sooner see Michael Jackson teaching with a 6' bouncer acting as "Teacher's Aide" and never leaving his sight than wonder whether the bus driver's gonna snap and make a little detour some day when there's only one girl left on the bus, because he never stepped forward, because he knew he'd have his head on a pike either officially or via vigilante. I totally understand that nobody agrees with me and why; it's not a pretty picture on either side, but I'm prepared to make that sacrifice, as I've known a lot of girls who were molested as children, none of them by people who already sought treatment for it, because all of them were still sane enough to say "If I tell anyone about this fetish of mine, my life is over" despite still being crazy enough to think "but if I'm clever about it, nobody needs to know...it can be our little secret..."
*shudder*
Unpleasant. But the debate remains where it is; amongst those debating (the majority of the posters), none of us want our daughters raped. Some want to assure this by killing anyone who steps forward, some want to assure this by encouraging them to step forward and quietly de facto castrating them all. I don't have any numbers to prove either side's correct.

_________________
Image
Here to go
Inventory: Julia Set Throwing Star, OmnipotentEntity's DNI


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Let it be a crime like any other, in my opinion. Let the schools, etc. decide who to hire, do not force such. Then again, perhaps I trust people's judgement too much.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:15 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:42 pm
Posts: 1793
Location: Still Alaska
MiB. Question.

Do you extend this line of thinking (i.e. "do not give them any sort of opportunity to even be near a potential target") to people who might become regular rapists? Potential murderers?

Who do you trust to make these decisions?

Edit: To clarify, you earlier mentioned you didn't trust psychologists at all.


Last edited by Abunai! on Sun Oct 19, 2003 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:40 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 2885
Location: San Antonio
I have worked (as an intern in probation and parole with drug addicts, I think this sort of pathology is similar and can be handled similarly, the Probation Office doesn't let alcoholics work at bars, I thought it obvious that as a condition of my Probation idea, they not be allowed to work schools, day cares, church youth groups, etc. There are job placement programs within Probation Departments, they could be used to find jobs for these people that keep them working away from children as much as possible. If you are in a state where probation officers are sworn liscensed Police Officers (unlike mine :( but I think we'll be fixing that soon) as long as they all know and keep track of where this guy goes and what he does (in the chemical addiction Probation some of them have to call in whenever they leave their residence, tell where they are going, call in within a reasonable time when they get there, and call in again to leave, there are Probation patrols who drive around town and check up on them to make sure they aren't lying.) Since these systems are already in place, adding a few perverts to the work load wouldn't even create a noticeable strain on the agencies involved and might keep a few of these people secured that wouldn't have otherwise come forward.

_________________
We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Let it be a crime like any other, in my opinion. Let the schools, etc. decide who to hire, do not force such. Then again, perhaps I trust people's judgement too much.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:20 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3730
Location: DELETED FOR SECURITY REASONS
Abunai! wrote:
MiB. Question.

Do you extend this line of thinking (i.e. "do not give them any sort of opportunity to even be near a potential target") to people who might become regular rapists? Potential murderers?

Who do you trust to make these decisions?


Psychologists. If you're a psychopath you get put in a nice padded room because you cannot be trusted around other human beings. Remember?

Oh, woah, looks like Ab pulled a STUPID

-MiB

_________________
delenda est communism


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 12:10 pm 
Offline
n00b
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:30 pm
Posts: 2
Kylaer
Quote:
I'm giving short, choppy answers because you've already made it clear that you're not interested in reading longer ones, since you've apparently skipped most of the thread.

I apologize, but please understand get very little time for this in a day, and I don't read very quickly, thus I limit myself to only two full pages in a day, on days I actually have time to check forums, and likewise two posting, and I had read one previously. The obvious response is, then wait till you have caught up, but I wanted to respond while the issue I was going to comment on was still fresh.

Kylaer
Quote:
Botched-up biochemistry, in pedophiles as it is in homosexuals. It's not something to "understand," nor is it something that can be changed with good-hearted actions.

Actually one can combat biochemistry through drugs, certain drugs designed to target certain neuro receptors in the brain can be used to inhibit almost any sort of biochemical system by occupying certain 'spots' and blocking the production of related stimuli. However neuroscience being used in this fashion rarely sees approval for testing these days, and it's still fairly new, so technology isn't quite a solution just yet.

And even if it is botched biochemistry, how it manifests and how said manifestations are significant. Say for instance that it's entirely sexually related, then put the offender on castrators (drugs that prevent sexual arousal) may be effective deterrent. Perhaps it has something to do with a pyschological need for 'experiencing' youthful 'vitality' if caught early enough such needs can be redirected. I've heard of pyschologists that treat potential sex-offenders by hireing prostitutes for them every now and again so that their desires are met, and as far as I have seen it seems to be effective. It sounds to me like there is little compassion here, wether we hate them or not it becomes helpful to show a face of rehabilitation over punishment, both to draw them out and because in the end to destroy a person in such a fashion takes away anything useful they may be able to provide. Though on that note I supposse one could round them up and use them as mass labour until they drop.

To Tyhm
I see....
I think your looking too deep, either that or pyscho-analyzing selfdestruct, I may be wrong but, he simply argues that as long as both parties are consenting the behaviour is acceptable. This simply brings into question whether a child should be allowed to consent, since there is a good chance that they do not know what is best for them. Though as I see now this is off topic and I shall not pursue it further.

To Ryven
Oh absolutely, schools are hard taxed as it is, (at least here they are) and another strain on their budget would be hard to handle. We have plenty of perfectly good potential teachers so replacement isn't that difficult, of course schools aren't the only problem environment but they seem to bear the greatest potential. Of course if taxes were raised you could put together some sort of investigative and monitoring comitee to monitor teachers and staff, get volunteers etc. maybe make it an extension of the PTA.

Which brings up another point there seems to be a lot of general focus, maybe this is due to lack of actual information, but maybe there should be a little more specific focus, as in classifying types not just by whether they are potential, proven, or committed. But where they lurk, how they do so, and why they go about doing so, I have a suspiscion(however you spell that) that not all pedaphiles are equal, there's an old saying that punishment should fit the crime, but perhaps it should be a punishment to fit the criminal. And that was my point with pulling apart Tyhm's anology, perhaps what were looking for here is not one of two answers but many dynamic answers, which of course may or may not change as technology and society evolve.... err.... grow, change, whatever.

To Abunai!
Knowing where to draw the line is an often debated Idea, and often times that line is fairly arbitrary or at least semi so, age requirements for instance what makes someone any more mature tomorrow then they were yesterday? Generally one would look at the statistics, observe certain prequisite features, behavioural trends, likeliness to commit, etc. and if they fall within a certain range of the mean, extended beyond just the traditional high percentage zone, better safe then sorry, then you classify them as being within that case. At least that's the way to do it with statistical reliability.

Quote:
Who do you trust to make these decisions?

Probably pyschologists with backgrounds in statistics, at least that's what I would say.

To Clay
Are you sure that such a place would be a good environment for molestors and such, the people that they may be associated with might have detrimental effects, or are we to ignore that potential basically considering the offenders rights as a human revoked? I don't mean to go to off topic but if we are treating them by offering potentials gaurenteed jobs would it not be plausable that some people might lie just to get work?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:08 pm 
Offline
Addict

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 3394
Location: Royal Court of Unfounded Speculation
Selfdestruct wrote:
tsc, first off I am happy for you that you are ignorant as you believe in god.


OK. That's another debate right there.

Shit, I just realised that this has gotten more posts then the God one... wow.

_________________
A man said to the Universe, "Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the Universe, "the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."


- Stephen Crane


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 187 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group