Session Start Wed Nov
Session Ident #TeamBG
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N ow talking in » ( #TeamBG )
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T opic » ( Welcome to TeamBG | IESDP
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Saturday November )
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• Arcam thinks that whenever you are fighting dragons, the
more mages you have, the netter off you are.
( Arcam ) heya
• Cloud waves.
( Veryinky ) Since the attack is a surprise, to the
dragons, you get initiative, fireballs at the same spot should kill a third to half of them
( Arcam ) clouds from downunder
( Cloud ) Clouds from SCOTLAND MOFO.
• @ DeanoTeamBG listens to Tool Lateralus
• Cloud is in australia tho.
( Veryinky ) The hasted fighter goes nuts on one
them, while the cleric tries a hold spell. The dragons move into position, might do an acid
attack but your fighter is protected from acid. Seccond round, more fireballs, dragons moral
breaks and then it's simple cleanup.
( Arcam ) see
( Veryinky ) Though. Technicaly. Killing the dragons
is an evil act.
( Arcam ) are black dragons good?
( Veryinky ) No, they're evil
( Arcam ) then why is it an evil act
( Veryinky ) But they did'nt attack you. And if you
just stand there they leave.
( Arcam ) any time you rid the world of evil, it is a
good thing
( Veryinky ) The game tells you that you don't _have_
to attack.
( Arcam ) screw the game
( Veryinky ) Yeah. But I reloaded until I found a way
to kill them all. )
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Arcam so randomly killing someone
because they are "evil" is good? I think not
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) P
• Arcam thinks of ethics. Killing evil dragons is always
good.
( Veryinky ) deano, detect evil in a city street,
kill everyone who shows up as evil.
( Veryinky ) swindling merchant, child thief, school
bully
( Veryinky ) )
( Arcam ) we are talking dragons here
( Arcam ) not people
( Veryinky ) True
( Veryinky ) Technicaly all chromatic (colour code)
dragons are evil
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Dragons are living things too! *lol*
( Veryinky ) All metalic dragons are good
( Arcam ) stick to the subject deano
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) eh?
( Veryinky ) Still
( Arcam ) all metallica dragons are good? )
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) if Dragon's aren't the subject, what
is?
( Veryinky ) arcam, gold, silver, bronze...
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Platinum
( NotMrT ) what about pink
( Veryinky ) There's a platinum dragon?
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Brass
( Arcam ) name a pink metal and the answer is yes
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) i'm trying to remember if there are
any others
( Veryinky ) Heh
( Veryinky ) Iron dragon
( Veryinky ) Ooh
( Veryinky ) There are gem dragons
( Veryinky ) Emerald, jade, ruby, diamond, sapphire..
( Veryinky ) No serriously, that must be terrible.
( Veryinky ) "Hey, I'm MADE out of gems. Kill me now"
( Arcam ) Deano, I see it like this. Killing any evil
dragon as soon as you see it is like killing any drow as soon as you see them. Its just a good
idea and it helps the world be a better place to live )
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) hehe
N ick » ( Echon|Away ) is now known
as ( Echon )
( DownRt_Horred ) night all
( Echon ) Night.
( Arcam ) cya
( Veryinky ) nite
Q uit » ( DownRt_Horred ) (
~bill@Powered By TeamBG CAF DE .client.comcast.net ) ( Quit )
• @ DeanoTeamBG waves to Horred
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) *doh*
( Veryinky ) arcam, is right though.
( Echon ) That is just a load of crap.
( Arcam ) Hey, it is not crap
( Veryinky ) There are what, , drow in the
world? of them are non evil.
( Veryinky ) Well good drizzt, neutral souffen,
lesser evil viconica.
( Arcam ) who is the third one? Heck, who is the
second one?
( Cloud ) Soulafein.
( Echon ) Very That is just an assumption based on
nothing but a wild guess.
( Arcam ) In TOB, you can make Vicky good
( Arcam ) if you romanced her
( Veryinky ) True
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Veryinky I'd also go as far as
saying there are , Jarlaxle isn't evil either P
( Cloud ) Good and evil are merely perspectives.
( Veryinky ) echon, true. But considering drow
society. The bad far outweigh the good.
( Arcam ) they sure prettied her up in bg . No one
would want to romance the hag she looked like in bg )
( Veryinky ) cloud, if it benifits others at the cost
of the self, it's good. If it costs others at the benifit of the self, it's evil.
( Arcam ) No cloud, you are WRONG. Good is good and
evil, well, its evil.
( Arcam ) )
( Veryinky ) arcam, well yeah.
( NotMrT ) thats not good that selfless
( Echon ) Good point Cloud. Good and evil is
subjective.
( Cloud ) No.
( Veryinky ) selfless is good
( Cloud ) Good and evil are merely points of views.
( NotMrT ) you can be selfish and good
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) how can Cloud be wrong?
( Ajoc ) fish fish
( NotMrT ) haha
( Veryinky ) notmrt, that's neutral.
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) i'd say he's not far from the truth
( NotMrT ) im talking reality here
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) in fact, right bang on
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) P
( Cloud ) It all depends on what your point of view
is
( NotMrT ) if you rip a rabbits head of for fun
( NotMrT ) thats evil
( NotMrT ) if you save a pram froma car thats good
( Arcam ) So you are saying there is not set
definition of evil?
( NotMrT )
( Arcam ) or of good
( Echon ) No.
( NotMrT ) slitting peoples throats as you felt like
it is definantly evil
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Arcam no, you just go with what
people have taught you is good and evil
( Arcam ) wow, your world must be really sad
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) P
( Cloud ) Yeah, Im pretty much saying theres no real
definition for good.
( Cloud ) Or for evil.
( Echon ) Our opinions are all based on the
established ethics of our society.
( Veryinky ) To me good is selflessness. Evil is
selfishness.
( NotMrT ) my definition is hurting people for no
good reason is evil
( Ajoc ) fish fish
( NotMrT ) hahaha
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Echon i kind of said that, you put
it far far better
( Cloud ) I also like that.
( Echon ) Hehe.
• @ DeanoTeamBG goes to stab Ajoc in the eye
( NotMrT ) my opinions are based on what would make
me feel bad
( NotMrT ) lol
( NotMrT ) if someone stole my money id feel bad
( Veryinky ) OK
( NotMrT ) thus its a bad thing to steal
( Arcam ) So what you are telling me is that there is
some way that hitler killing the jews could be good?
( Koning_Floris ) hehe
( Veryinky ) So how would what the drow do be
considered "good"
( NotMrT ) no
( Veryinky ) Even the drow hate the drow.
( NotMrT ) ask yourself would you like this to hapen
to yourself
( Echon ) Very The drow do not think of themselves
as evil.
( Veryinky ) notmrt, that does'nt work for
masochists.
( Echon ) That is the point.
( NotMrT ) that covers a large part of it
( Cloud ) Arcam Again, that point of view is
subjective
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Arcam no, there may be some people
who could view it as "good"... doesn't in any way mean it is
( Cloud ) Nowadays, Its viewed as evil
( NotMrT ) masochisim is a mental illness so it dosnt
count
( Cloud ) But back in germany
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) it's all about your view on the
subject matter
( Veryinky ) echon, no, they don't consider
themselves as evil. But they none the less don't like being tortured.
( Cloud ) It was viewed as good.
( NotMrT ) not meaning bdsm
( NotMrT ) i mean proper masochisim
( Echon ) Very What has that got to do with it?
• Arcam believes that there are "gray" areas where
societies differ on what is good or bad but that there are some things every society deems to
be good and others that every society deems to be evil.
( Veryinky ) echon, from a subjective view, all drow
society is evil. From their point of view it's "how things are done"
( NotMrT ) killing an inocent person is always evil
( Echon ) What has it got to do with torture?
( Koning_Floris ) but terrorist dont see themself as
evil
( Arcam ) that is a self image
( Arcam ) the evil never see themselves as evil
(@ DeanoTeamBG ) Good Vs Evil... who wins? *lol*
( NotMrT ) no but they arnt evil they are wrong what
they do is evil and sometiems they do it for a good reason
( Arcam ) even though they are
( Echon ) Arcam That is the point.
( NotMrT ) but they do the wrong thing
( Koning_Floris ) but their m dont see them as evil
too
( Echon ) And no, that is just your opinion.
( NotMrT ) not a matter if you think your evil
( Koning_Floris ) they kill inferior beings, in their
eyes its good
( NotMrT ) tthats evil
( Cloud ) "Evil only exists so men can do good and
fight it."
( NotMrT ) its killing for no good reason
( Arcam ) My point is that there is a definate evil
and a definate good. Your point is that some evil bastard may think what he is doing is good,
when in fact it is not.
( Koning_Floris ) thats not what they think
( Cloud ) Arcam Tell that to the germans during
( Echon ) Arcam You are being subjective again.
( Arcam ) We are talking about two different things
( Cloud ) There is *NO* definite good and evil
( Arcam ) I disagree
( Echon ) You cannot say it is a fact, Arcam.
( Cloud ) Its not a fact.
( Cloud ) Its FAR from a fact.
( Cloud ) Its subjective
( Echon ) Arcam You are turning your opinion into a
fact.
( Veryinky ) Hrm
( NotMrT ) the germans didnt know about the murders
mostly
( Cloud ) Mostly they didnt
( Veryinky ) Adamantite, is that the drow turns to
dust in sunlight metal?
( Cloud ) But they supported the TORTURE
( Arcam ) No, I do not believe it is. If there is no
definate line, then how do you tell? It makes no sense.
( Cloud ) inky Yes
( Echon ) Very No.
( NotMrT ) they were histerical
( Cloud ) Echon It is.
( NotMrT ) this is what opersion does
( Veryinky ) Oh
( NotMrT ) they were lead by an evil man
( Echon ) Cloud No, it is an alloy containing
adamantite.
( NotMrT ) they knew nothing else
( Arcam ) in your way of thinking, there may be some
case where a child molester is ok. In my book there is no way
( Cloud ) Echon Is it?
( Echon ) Pure adamantite is not ruined by sunlight.
( NotMrT ) its a mental illness
( Arcam ) there are definate wrongs
( Cloud ) Arcam You think the child molestor thinks
its wrong?
( Arcam ) there are things that are evil no matter
how you look at it
( Cloud ) Good and evil are merely POINTS OF VIEW.
( Cloud ) No more no less.
Q uit » ( Arcam ) ( Arcam@Powered By
TeamBG E A.flint .mi.comcast.net ) ( Quit He who fights monsters should look to
it that he himself does not become a monster...When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss
also gazes into you! )
-----------------
Okay, First, Id like to apologise for the shitty Way this has come out, theres a lot of code in the logs, and I had to find-> replace on most of it.
So whats your points of view on good and evil?
As you'll have read above, if you could be bothered, I find good and evil to be merely subjective terms. Based on your point of view.
(And merely so I dont get any shit from people later, I agreed with him on the point of child molestation. Its my point of view that its wrong. But again, this is merely my point of view, doesnt mean that the same point of view is applicable to the child molestor.)
Discuss.
---
Edited from the MT forums where I posted earlier.
The person who disagreed with me earlier came back, and Pm'd me.
-
-23:50:41- (Arcam) sigh all you want. I will never see it your way and you won't see it mine, so why bother?
-23:50:55- (Cloud) Because it was a debate.
-23:51:15- (Cloud) A chance for me to expand my intellect. A chance for you to try and persuade me to your way of thinking.
-23:51:20- (Arcam) no, it was a disagrement, there is a difference
-23:51:29- (Cloud) No, it was not a disagreement
-23:51:35- (Cloud) A disagreement involves name calling
-23:51:40- (Arcam) no
-23:51:58- (Arcam) it only involves not agreeing with someone
-23:52:36- (Cloud) A debate is an exchange of views with people who disagree on a point.
-23:52:54- (Arcam) No, I was on the debate team in school.
-23:52:59- (Arcam) that is not what it is
-23:53:08- (Cloud) well to be honest mate
-23:53:23- (Cloud) If you leave debates because you cant handle a fair point that someone is making
-23:53:33- (Cloud) You must have really sucked on the debate team in high school
-23:53:51- (Arcam) I left because it was futile and what was happening was not a debate.
-23:53:59- (Arcam) A debate is an orderly thing
-23:54:07- (Arcam) done according to rules
-23:54:11- (Arcam) with a judge
-23:54:24- (Cloud) In irc, there are no set rules, and the only judges are the ops
-23:54:53- (Arcam) you must be young
-23:55:27- (Cloud) Im 18
-23:55:40- (Arcam) yeah, I thought so
-23:55:46- (Arcam) way to young
-23:55:46- (Cloud) And the fact is Im now able to outdebate someone who claims to be good at debates
-23:55:55- (Cloud) I find the fact you left quite offensive by the way
-23:56:25- (Arcam) I found your point of view offensive, I guess that makes us even, doesn't it.
-23:57:32- (Cloud) Hardly
-23:57:35- (Cloud) The fact is
-23:57:39- (Cloud) Good and evil are subjective
-23:57:46- (Cloud) They are only points of view
-23:58:12- (Cloud) The point you made regarding the child molestation, yes, I agree with you, I find it to be quite evil, and definitely wrong.
-23:58:18- (Cloud) Again, this is my point of view
-23:58:26- (Cloud) Do you think the child molestor views it as wrong?
-23:59:20- (Arcam) Lets see, what did I say about that conversation? I believe it was something like "I won't continue it" What part of that did you fail to understand?
-23:59:52- (Cloud) I saw no part of said statement. Why are you so afraid of continuing this?
-00:00:31- (Arcam) it has nothing to do with fear and if you continue to bother me with it, I will simply put you on ignore
-00:00:57- (Cloud) Talk about an over reaction. Im merely asking why.
-00:01:26- (Arcam) I merely told you I was not interested in continuing. You are pushing it. I will ignore you
-00:02:01- (Cloud) Fine, feel free to ignore me
-00:02:11- (Cloud) But know that youre being extremely immature about it
-00:02:41- (Arcam) No. I stated a valid reason to discontinue. You are trying to push me into it. That is immature
-00:02:51- (Cloud) You gave me no reason for discontinuing
-00:02:54- (Cloud) You just left.
-00:06:24- (Cloud) Im on ignore now?
-
He also called me gay later in chat, does anyone else ever wonder why people start these so called "debates" and then pull cheap stunts like this? It pisses me off.