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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:43 am 
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Your assuming that the only badasses are going to be the ones who dont try to establish a viable community. Hell, the people with a community are going to be more likely to maintian the tank if it breaks down, and/or coordinate organised defenses against attacks on their colony by armored vehicles or bikers and such.

If we are scouring across a wrecked city, and I see your tank, I will blow its tracks off while you sleep. And if I think you personally pose me a threat, Ill snipe your ass off at some stage. Even if you and your tank take over the world, your going to have to establish a democratic government at some stage.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:55 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:58 pm 
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and misses referances like a blind librarian...

but anyway, i think the main problem is that a few people here dont' actually know what Anarchy actually means other than a byword for everything being screwed up/out of control

que an old man in a grey suit looking flustered and commenting "but if we did that we'd have anarchy in the streets!" etc...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:24 pm 
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Poor Cenwood. He's turned into Wile E. Coyote. He keeps chasing after the Roadrunner, but he always ends up with nothing but air below his legs.

Really, dear boy, stop taking this so seriously. And back your damn arguments up rather than assuming that everyone knows what articles and other shit you're pulling out of your head are.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:22 pm 
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I second ollie's contention that none of you have any idea what the fuck anarchy is. As someone who was an anarchist for a considerable period of time (and who still thinks that in the end anarchy is a noble ideal), I can tell you right now that it's not lack of government, if you simply define government as large-scale social organization. Rather, anarchy (i.e. the absence of social/political hierarchy) would resemble a sort of highly decentralized, pure, Athenian style democracy combined with communism. Using "anarchy" to mean "chaotic lack of government" is somewhat akin to using "communism" to describe the governmental system of the former Soviet Union, which was actually closer to fascism than true communism.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:46 pm 
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Ghost: Eh? So who's taking this seriously? I have beef with the prevailing opinion in the other two topics, here I dont care.

So, what is anarchy? I always thought anarchy was just lack of any pre difined societal rules and no established government. What is your definition of an Anarchic system if not that? Enlighten my ignorance, wise people. No, not all of it, smartasses, the parts directly relating to your definition of anarchy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:53 pm 
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Cenwood wrote:
Ghost: Eh? So who's taking this seriously? I have beef with the prevailing opinion in the other two topics, here I dont care.

So, what is anarchy? I always thought anarchy was just lack of any pre difined societal rules and no established government. What is your definition of an Anarchic system if not that? Enlighten my ignorance, wise people. No, not all of it, smartasses, the parts directly relating to your definition of anarchy.


Zarathustra, earlier in the thread, wrote:
Dude, Icy-from-one-year-ago would soooo 0\/\//\/z0r j00 all in this debate (or just spout mindless ideological garbage... either way). (cf. this thread, this thread, and this thread)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:05 pm 
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Cenwood wrote:
So, what is anarchy?


see, you should have asked this before you started arguing in a thread called 'Oppressive Government vs. Anarchy'

how about the (start of at least) Spanish Civil War for an active Anarchy based state? i can't think of any other that has actually (more or less) called itself that anyway. One thing i liked about them was their refusal to jail people for crimes, prefering insted to shoot them as locking a fellow human up was against their principles (then the commies came in and forced them to lose the war) I think i mentioned 30's Spain before, but prehaps not here

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:22 pm 
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ollie wrote:
how about the (start of at least) Spanish Civil War for an active Anarchy based state? i can't think of any other that has actually (more or less) called itself that anyway.


The Spanish Anarcho-Syndicalists briefly gained control of central Spain (Catalonia) during the Spanish Civil War. Unfortunately, with the threat of Franco's fascists forces looming over the horizon, they decided to ally with the Communists for support. Because of this the Communists took control of Catalonia and systematically destroyed the social experiment which had been undertaken there.

George Orwell, in Homage to Catalonia, wrote:
The Anarchists were still in virtual control of Catalonia and the revolution
was still in full swing. To anyone who had been there since the beginning it
probably seemed even in December or January that the revolutionary period was
ending; but when one came straight from England the aspect of Barcelona was
something startling and overwhelming. It was the first time that I had ever
been in a town where the working class was in the saddle. Practically every
building of any size had been seized by the workers and was draped with red
flags ow with the red and black flag of the Anarchists; every wall was scrawled
with the hammer and sickle and with the initials of the revolutionary parties;
almost every church had been gutted and its images burnt. Churches here and
there were being systematically demolished by gangs of workman. Every shop and
cafe had an inscription saying that it had been collectivised; even the
bootblacks had been collectivized and their boxes painted red and black.
Waiters and shop-walkers looked you in the face and treated you as an equal.
Servile and even ceremonial forms of speech had temporarily disappeared. Nobody
said 'Sen~or' or 'Don' ort even 'Usted'; everyone called everyone else
'Comrade' or 'Thou', and said 'Salud!' instead of 'Buenos dias'. Tipping
had been forbidden by law since the time of Primo de Rivera; almost my first
experience was receiving a lecture from a hotel manager for trying to tip a
lift-boy. There were no private motor-cars, they had all been commandeered,
and the trams and taxis and much of the other transport were painted red and
black. The revolutionary posters were everywhere, flaming from the walls in
clean reds and blues that made the few remaining advertisements look like
daubs of mud. Down the Ramblas, the wide central artery of the town where
crowds of people streamed constantly to and fro, the loud-speakers were
bellowing revolutionary songs all day and far into the night. And it was
the aspect of the crowds that was the queerest thing of all. In outward
appearance it was a town in which the wealthy classes had practically ceased
to exist. Except for a small number of women and foreigners there were
no 'well-dressed' people at all. Practically everyone wore rough working-class
clothes, or blue overalls or some variant of militia uniform. All this was
queer and moving. There was much in this that I did not understand, in some
ways I did not not even like it, but I recognized it immediately as a state of
affairs worth fighting for. Also, I believed that things were as they appeared,
that this was really a workers' State and that the entire bourgeoisie had either
fled, been killed or voluntarily come over to the workers' side; I did not
realise that great numbers of well-to-do bourgeois were simply lying low and
disguising themselves as proletarians for the time being.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:45 pm 
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Zarathustra wrote:
The Spanish Anarcho-Syndicalists briefly gained control of central Spain (Catalonia) during the Spanish Civil War. Unfortunately, with the threat of Franco's fascists forces looming over the horizon, they decided to ally with the Communists for support. Because of this the Communists took control of Catalonia and systematically destroyed the social experiment which had been undertaken there.


not to railroad this into a thread about guns and tanks (i wish) but the Anarchist had to sign up with the communists as they were the ones being supplied the arms, aircraft and tanks by Soviet Russia, most of them shabby, but better than nothing, especially when the Italian and (more so) the German legions got (unoffically) involved. anyway, the communist tactics were awful on a monumental scale and when Russia stopped the arms supply after signing the pre-war treaty with Germany the usefulness of the communists was without any merit at all, but by then they were in charge and the war was all but over

still, an interesting social experiment, one largely lost due to the Second World War shortly afterwards and the world's later polarisation into Red and Blue camps, no space for Red/Black anywhere...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:20 pm 
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ollie wrote:
Cenwood wrote:
So, what is anarchy?


see, you should have asked this before you started arguing in a thread called 'Oppressive Government vs. Anarchy'


I did not know my definition of anarchy was wrong before you told me. Im still not convinced your interpretation of the word anrachy is correct, and just because you are citing one polictical party who used anarchy in their name doesnt mean their is one anarchic "system" as their is a Communist System or a Capitalist system. And are you actually going to explain what the word means, or do I need to do my homework on Spain to understand?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:33 pm 
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Cenwood wrote:
are you actually going to explain what the word means, or do I need to do my homework on Spain to understand?


no i'm not, and yes, it would help to read up on just about the only anarchist 'state' (if you can call it that) if you are going to talk about anarchy as a real thing, not just a word in a book

See the elephant

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