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Is cutting "stupid"?
Yes 49%  49%  [ 18 ]
No 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
I'd use a different word 41%  41%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 37
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 Post subject: On the topic of self injury
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:02 pm 
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I got the idea to share this. It's the one topic I know a lot about, and I've currently been having somewhat of an unformal debate. I don't know if this is appropriate, but I really wanted to get your opinions.

http://forum.deviantart.com/community/l ... 14/2042497

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:10 pm 
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I think what I think of it depends on the context. I come nowhere near to approving of it, but it varies.

There is the attention-grabbing idiots, for whome cutting is a terrible idiocy and I sincerely wish would grow the hell up.

For people who are so depressed, self hating etc that they feel the need to cut...well, I suppose they have my pity for being in such a bad situation, but in no way do I think cutting is appropriate. Someone compared the effects it can have as a release, much like crying, which has and does become addictive (I have talked and befriended other people who cut before, and I am aware of how difficult it is to force yourself to stop after a while.)

Cutting is an escape from reality, as well as self-harm. Neither help one's situation, only keep one from solving the problem at hand. For an avoidance of issues, it is a wonderful tool; the fact is, however, avoiding your own issues is a bad thing, and only prolongs suffering. Thus cutting is bad, no matter the reasons for you doing it.

At least, thats what I figure.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:45 pm 
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Kali, from other Forum wrote:
Unfortunately, this is usually a form of avoidance. Cutting is a sign that something unnatural is occuring, whether it be supressing emotion, displacing anger, or just faulty brain wiring. In the case of displaced anger, cutting the skin is substituted instead of yelling at someone or hitting them or trying to find a solution. When someone is masochistic, of course, cutting the skin is just another way to bring pleasure. You have to realize that to a cutter, it is more than just " cutting the skin and opening oneself up to infection". If it were only that, than I'd agree. Cutting would be pointless and stupid. But that's never the case.


I think you said it best YOURSELF right there. It's unnatural, and some react so violently because it's just plain creepy. It may be some "release," and it may only be a "little" dangerous, but it is still causing pain, even if that "pain" gets you to pleasure. And more importantly it is something you can become dependant on. When you are dependant on something something that is possibly harmful, then you need help.

and Kali please don't view this as a personal attack:
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that you may hear all of this against cutting, both logical and not, and still reject all who speak against you.

Please don't.

Please have an open mind to what we say here.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:30 pm 
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I don't see anything wrong with it. It is no different than S&M. So long as the person isn't doing permanent harm to themselves I think they can do what they want with themselves.

I have known people before who cut themselves. Sometimes it was clearly for attention other times it was a way to vent deep-seeded emotional strife. I have heard it described as a way to alleviate the horrific empty feeling that many people have experienced at some point or another in their life. Sometimes it is just a fascination with blood. Either way it isn't like it is a negative activity, albeit atypical.

I agree that it doesn't solve problems. Nor does crying, running, shadow-boxing, CS, writing, or screaming. Though they all help to make the person feel better. Afterall, the goal of solving your "problems" is to make yourself feel better. If you can find a way to feel just as well without actually solving the problem then it is just as good as solving it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:25 pm 
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Although I have never cut myself, I don't see a problem with it. It can be a good release for some, and having someone cut me was exhilirating. Too bad she turned out to be psycho...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:19 pm 
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It's good as a way to learn to deal with pain (and the endorphin thing is bullshit; it's all will).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:42 pm 
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It's a weak and mindless thing to do, suitable only for attention whores who have gone beyond the "Look at me, I wear black clothes with studs and chains" phase and are looking for the Next Big Thing in turning themselves into outcasts.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:10 pm 
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http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html
Search that site, it was given to me while I was at Dominion, so I know it's reliable information.

The Man in Black wrote:
Cutting is an escape from reality, as well as self-harm. Neither help one's situation, only keep one from solving the problem at hand. For an avoidance of issues, it is a wonderful tool; the fact is, however, avoiding your own issues is a bad thing, and only prolongs suffering.


I couldn't agree more. In fact, in many cases, it just adds on to the situation at hand. Which is very counter-productive. It's a terrible trap to fall victim to.

BDM05 wrote:
and Kali please don't view this as a personal attack:


This has nothing to do with me or my experiences. ^^;; No worries. I meant for this to be an actual debate topic. Of course I'm going to hear a lot of people against it, I wanted to find out the different reasons, see if someone could add in a new point of view. (btw, I haven't cut in three months and I don't plan to again)

revolutio wrote:
I agree that it doesn't solve problems. Nor does crying, running, shadow-boxing, CS, writing, or screaming. Though they all help to make the person feel better.


Fortunately, cutting is just a coping strategy. As are the other things you listed. Since cutting is an addictive habit and does have slight disadvantages, the doctors say it is far better and healthier to run, cry, scream, write, etc. than to resort to self injury.

forevergrey wrote:
In case that is too subtle, this is you. This crap about endomorphins is just a cop out.. in fact only makes it worse. "Its ok to cut, its only a drug addiction" is what your saying (So no suprise Krylex has no problems with it).


I never said it was okay to cut. I don't think you even know how to read, do you? Or are you just a selective reader? Because obviously I stated that many times in that thread.

But of course, if MiB was really talking to me as you say he is, then please offer me a "way to grow up." If you have something to say of any value, I won't discredit you for being hypocritical.

forevergrey wrote:
Of course, its pointless to talk to you about doing destructive things for attention, isn't it? It is, after all, then only thing you live for.


Of course, I've been an attention whore since the day I was born. I would never deny that. But this debate is not about me. It is about cutting and cutters. So please keep your personal issues to youself. kkthanx

The Baron wrote:
(and the endorphin thing is bullshit; it's all will).


Uhm. I think research on that would prove otherwise.

Kylaer wrote:
It's a weak and mindless thing to do, suitable only for attention whores who have gone beyond the "Look at me, I wear black clothes with studs and chains" phase and are looking for the Next Big Thing in turning themselves into outcasts.


I would especially recommend the site for you. You might get a big laugh, but it's not just a problem facing goths, facing phad-whores, facing teenagers. But are you saying it's only acceptable in those cases? "It's what they deserve for craving that type of attention" kind of thing? I guess, in that case, it would be weak and mindless, I have no arguement there.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:24 pm 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
Fortunately, cutting is just a coping strategy. As are the other things you listed. Since cutting is an addictive habit and does have slight disadvantages, the doctors say it is far better and healthier to run, cry, scream, write, etc. than to resort to self injury.
Granted it would be better to do other activities to cope. However there is no way doctors can determine, nor can a person change, what strategies help them to cope with their problems. For some, self mutilation (sorry I refuse to use a PC term like "self injury") is the best or only way in which they can alleviate they burden of their problems.

So long as they are using a sterilized blade and are intelligent enough to not cut any major arteries, it should not be discouraged if it helps to ease a person's suffering.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:28 pm 
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The way to deal with your problems is to deal with them. If one cried or shadow-boxed or whatever every time there was a problem instead of actually doing something about it, then its not okay.

As I also mentioned, in my experience at least, the problem appears to be something the person doesn't want to deal with or feel they can't control, and the cutting gives them a feeling of control, over their own bodies if nothing else.

Erm, I don't think I have to mention that being in that situation is unhealthy and should be gotten out of ASAP.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:46 pm 
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Grey, I'm not a drug addict. Secondly, your thinking of why I don't have a problem with it is wrong. I don't mind someone who wants to cut themselves. I used to be very against it, and someone very close to me used to cut herself all the time. I still think she does. To people like her, its not about attention. Most of the time people that cut do it completely out of sight. They don't want people to know. To them, its just an escape, much like guitar is for me. I can sit back and play my guitar no matter what mood I'm in. It is my constant. It is always there. Sometimes, thats all some people feel they have. I am against it, however, if it is for the explicit purpose of drawing attention from someone else. Then its no longer an escape and doesn't serve a purpose other than whoring.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:22 pm 
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krylex wrote:
Most of the time people that cut do it completely out of sight. They don't want people to know.


Very true. Most people think it's to gain attention because all you ever here about self mutilation is that somebody wants to do it. Those people who whore on the forums and show their scars with pride are usually attention whores. Those who worry about cutting again, and ask for help, probably want the attention, but they also want help. The general percentage of the population who do cut do not tell others about it. Shame and guilt.

Young Asterisk wrote:
If I was going to intentionally do something to cause myself pain, I would just simply go and get something pierced or tattooed.... hmm, maybe just something pierced, not as permanent X_x;;


There are a lot of people who do both. When they're bored in class, they stick saftely pins into their lower lip or through the back of their hand to pierce them. Then they go home and cut. Piercing is acceptable in school and goes unnoticed more easily. Safety pins can be warn throughout the entire day and only thought of "it's just a style". And of course, saftely pins are also used to cut by themselves. It's just added pain. Manipulating different areas of the body (it does make one high). So it's not always one or the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:29 pm 
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I'm with Mibby on this one. Shared experience.

Seriously, if you're cutting, it's best to get out of whatever situation is causing you to cut, and fast.

It may feel good, but it's a vicious cycle. It doesn't make the problem go away, it just delays. And that makes finally dealing with the problem even worse.

And Kali, dear, you have enough problems to deal with as it is. (This is not an insult, just an observation.)

My $0.02 for the debate.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:30 pm 
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You posted your reply a good half hour after it was deleted on the recommendation that it wouldnt help your fragile mental state. Does it really take you that long to generate a half-assed reply?


Last edited by Forevergrey on Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Yes, this is pointless.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:30 pm 
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I have always stuck needles and safty pins through my skin. Hmm, maybe I've done more than I ever thought I did. I see now that someone voted no with me finally!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:16 pm 
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"I'd use a different word for it".

Assinine. Mindless. Idiodic. Moronic.

If it's a documented case of some sort of mental disease, then it needs to be fixed. As for all the fucktards who decide to cut themselves for attention and people who decide to carve their siggo's names into their arms to guilt them or to make them feel "the sorrow and pain of life" (IE my sister's ex best friend), it's fucking stupid and attention whorish, and those who do it should knock the fuck off. If you're that desperate to hurt yourself, may I direct you to the Freeway. Maybe then those fucktards could feel some real "pain".

Jesus fucking christ, I hate neogoths. *plops 2 cents into the penny jar and walks off disgusted*

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:19 pm 
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*blink* You know, i wish I knew who Grey was referring to, me or Kali . . . I mean, considering they hate each other I'd assume it was Kali, but since Grey doesn't know how to use the quote button apparently, I'm a little confused.

Perhaps someone would mind translating what Grey said into something I understand?

Then again, it may just be I'm mentally deprived thanks to the English paper I'm currently procrastinating on/writing.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:22 pm 
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I think we are all in agreement that the people Ryven is ranting about are not right in any way. We aren't talking about them, however, Ryven. We are more meaning people who aren't doing it for attention. People who do it as an escape, and most of the time don't like anyone knowing about it.

EDIT: I believe hes talking to Kali, but he could be talking to me. The only reason I didn't reply sooner is I was at work and unable to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:32 pm 
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It's a weak and mindless thing to do, suitable only for attention whores who have gone beyond the "Look at me, I wear black clothes with studs and chains" phase and are looking for the Next Big Thing in turning themselves into outcasts.


I agree, yo. Cutting ... retarded. But I think the word 'stupid' (while I would like to use a more harsh word) fits it pretty neatly.

Bah. But you know that quite well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:33 pm 
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If people are doing it as an escape, they should be helped. Self mutilation is not a good thing. It's a sign of self loathing and a serious mental condition.

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