ZOMBIE FORUMS

Woah, after all this time you still can't tell when I purposely misinterpret you in order to piss you off?

Well I suppose thats part of the fun, since if you knew you wouldn't get pissed off etc...

-MiB, with <3

Ok. This is getting out of hand. The flames need to stop immediatly. On a related note, my ex that used to cut hasn't cut herself in a long time, but I don't know if I'll get a chance to sit down and ask her why, as she's out of town for a while.

I've cut myself.

One time at summer camp I accidently closed my pocket knife on my middle finger.

Remind me to send you all a picture of my middle finger.

*Grin*

I've cut myself, so here's my opinion!

Cutting for attention:

You should knock that shit off and go suck some dick if you want attention. No one wants to here your fucking sob story.

Cutting for the scars:

Scars are earned. Not created to look cool. Go cut some lumber and accidently hack a finger off with an axe. Then come talk to me.

Cutting to cope:

Go see a shrink you fucking psychos. It's not normal. There are many more productive ways to cope. Like verbally spanking stupid people over the internet. Or angry sex. Yeah, angry sex.

Blood Sport (Cutting for sexual pleasure):

If you do it don't tell me about it. The worst I want to hear about is S&M. No skat or blood sport. Ya freak.

Cutting for religious rituals:

Hey, not my bag. Sounds kinda messed up. But at least your doing it for faith. Rock on and have faith.

Well, there's my two cents.

Eat shit ya skat lovers,
The Sinister Chris

PS: Stop playing the Devil's Fucking Advocate!!!!!

Uhm no, I posted that before the bad day began and I dunt attribute it to the bad day. I did read what you wrote. It's just when you say shit like that, knowing that someone will take it wrong .. and hoping they will so you can shoot them down ... and adding my own experience with you on this topic ... I must say it is rather irritating.

Yes. Your totally correct. As a member of NAMBLA I totally support that mindset. Dont critisize my raping of children unless you yourself have raped a child as frankly you just don't know what your talking about.

Also, lets not label murder, theft, arson, or practicly any destructive or self-destructive behavoir as bad unless we have done it ourselves.

Nice one, PTLIS,

TO THE PENALTY BOX WITH YOU.

The situations are totally different: Cutting only (directly) effects the person who is doing the cutting, all of the examples you have stated directly effect other people, in an obviously detrimental way. Your analagy is massively flawed.

PTLIS
TO THE PENALTY BOX WITH <b>YOU.</b>

Well, does the fact that i have known three people who have cut, all of whom only got progressivly more fucked up from it, one of whom spend two months in hospital when he cut too deep and almost died justify me in your 'OMG YOU DONT KNOW MY PAIN!!!111oneone!!' Rulebook when I say its a sickness?

PS, I did a google image search for 'Penalty box' and THIS came up

I cant wait to go to the penalty box.

Wait a second ... what do you mean by this "cutting only (directly) effects the person who is doing the cutting"?

*peers*

Explain 'directly'.

I mean exactly what it says. When cutting yourself the only person directly effected is you; you're in pain, have lost blood, run the risk of infection. Indirectly though it can effect other people (as in people who know); for example I was effected by Kyle's cutting, but not directly as in by being cut by him. On the other hand if I went out and robboed someone's house/raped someone etc they would be directly related hence the issue would become one of morality unlike self harm which (in my opinion) is not.

PTLIS

I think the best way to sum up PTLIS's point, Ryven is thus:

Ahem.. *clears throat*

"OMG YOU CANT UNDERSTAND MY PAIN!!!111!"

Oiy! Alrighty that works. ^____^

How about no. You have no valid pomits to uphold your P.O.V. please say something constructive or don't say anything at all. I did not say that "the feelings of those who care for you and want to help you are completely invalid", what I said was although (if they know about it) your family will be effected, most likely by worrying about you; This is nothing like actually causing them intentional, real harm as would be the case with "murder, theft, arson or rape".

PTLIS
Q.E.D.

Nothings more constructive that saying "Oh, let the cutters slice their bodies into peices, its a fine, happy and healthy thing to do, not a disorder in the slightest". Isn't that right, PTLIS?

Once again that is not what I said, nor was it even implied, furthermore do you really think that statement was constructive in any way? What I am trying to say is that just because you and ryven don't consider it 'normal' or 'healthy' doesn't mean to say that it is necceserily a bad thing, it is a coping mechanism and although it is not perfect by any means what are te halternatives? Psychology is psudo science at best...

PTLIS

A coping mechanism? Slicing your flesh is a coping mechanism?

Coping with what? Cutting symptom of NOT coping. If you were coping you wouldnt me carving lines or names or renditions of 'The Last Supper' into your thigh.

Um, no, that's not right, nor do I think he ever implied it. (EDIT: Gee, look, I read him correctly. :P Though PTLIS may have been wrong on one point since Forevergrey's statement was constructive: it made it patently clear to me that he didn't understand PTLIS's post at all.)

Let's look at what he said again, shall we?

Despite the fact that

(I would have enlarged or bolded the "Bitching" tags if I didn't think they were already obvious enough to anyone who had attentively read his post.)

(Emphasis on the last bit added by yours truly.)

True, he didn't explicitly spell out in words the fact that he acknowledges that there are cases in which cutting is a VERY BAD THING which would qualify as a disorder. But when he mentions "different outcomes, some positive and some will almost certainly have ended in the death of the cuter, whether accidentally or intentionally" I don't think I'm over-interpreting when I read it to mean "different outcomes, some positive and some [negative, and tragically so]." Presumably it was a belief that in the latter cases cutting is not "a fine, happy and healthy thing to do" which led him to try and help his friend "Kyle."

(Again, emphasis added by moi.)

Sounds to me like he's saying that, while cutting is stupid (did you guys somehow miss that line?) and dangerous and in some cases leads to some VERY BAD OUTCOMES (up to and including death) which are to be avoided (again, c.f. Kyle) there are also instances in which it is truly not harmful to others. Even if it never happened this way any other time in all of creation, his experience (assuming it was described accurately) at least proves the possibility of such.

If your problem is that you think his cutting was harmful to others, I would ask: "How so?" Since no one knew about it until long afterwards, there was no reaction of "My god, PTLIS is cutting himself!" which I agree has the potential to deeply distress those who love him, and thereby add to their suffering. Instead, by being helpful to him the cutting could be seen as being helpful to them as well. If you are going to say that cutting hurts those around you since it causes you anguish of the physical subtype (which you've all been saying, and which I agree with), then you have to concede that it can help them if it relieves you of anguish of the mental subtype. Since it doesn't sound like PTLIS came down with any infections or other complications as a result of his cutting, that would leave its overall effect on him and his loved ones as a positive one. Again granted that we have no objective way of knowing whether the cutting actually played any role in his recovery, I am inclined to believe him since he's the one who lived through it, certainly moreso than I would believe any whose claims amounted to somehow knowing what's going on in his head better than he does.

While it is entirely presumptive of me to do this, and I would wholeheartedly implore PTLIS to straighten me out and correct me if I am off-base, I will here attempt to restate PTLIS's closing point since I feel it was somewhat confusingly worded. If you didn't get it and only had the rest of his post to go on, then you might have been left with a few misconceptions which might have contributed to this argument. (Yes, argument. Wherever it may be located, a thread is no longer a debate when statements such as the one Forevergrey made are being posted.)


My reading:

In any case, I still acknowledge that cutting is in some sense negative because I am certain that there are other things I could have done which would also have helped me. I don't know of any specific things, though, and their existence does not negate the fact that, in the end, cutting had a positive effect on my life, and so it is foolish for anyone to make the general claim that all cutting is TEH DEBIL.

He never said that all cutting is good; what he said was that you can't make any blanket statement about it. It is neither all good nor all bad. As with everything in life, it must be judged on a case-by-case basis. Unfortunately, we can't judge a particular case until it's in our past, so by all means please try your best to help those who cut themselves (as he helped his friend) but don't try and invalidate others' experiences by saying "No, you're wrong. That thing you did? It can never help anyone, and if you think it helped you, well then you're an idiot."

Yevaud, that is exactly what I was trying to put accross, all of the clarifications are correct, and I thank you for making it more obvious what the thrust of my argument was. Unfortunatally i find it very hard to articulate the concepts I have in my head and put them down on paper successfully, hence the fact I draw/paint rather write as a creative outlet.

PTLIS
You rock