ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:50 am 
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You know, you'd think they'd learn <i>not</i> to build up by now. I think it'd be fantastic if they dug DOWN. I mean, (thank you <u>Charlie and the Chocolate Factory</u>) there's unlimited space underground. But I suppose it would undermine the basic structure of the city above, so I guess I understand that.

But, still. If it wasn't for our obsession with height/size, there'd be a lot less dead people. No offense of that sounds apathetic.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:56 am 
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Labrat wrote:
American superiority complex? Absolutely, but is that so wrong?
As one american individual compaired to one from the Republic of Congo I figure each has equal worth. If worth is not equal it has nothing to do with what country he or she is from. On the other hand, as a nation, America is vastly better than Congo. As a country America has ungodly power in comparison, takes better care of its people, and dosn't have a coup/civil war/assassination/fit of internal genocide/etc every year.

Are all men created equal? I think so. (though value may change later if you turn out to be a homicidal maniac or a telemarketer) Are all countries? Nope. Thats just my highly skewed viewpoint (like any living person isn't skewed) though so feel free to list it under "hot-air blown out of an American's ass".


All of that's moot if we flaunt it and make asses of ourselves because we're better off. Point is that America would be a great country if it weren't full of people who think the world should kiss the ground Americans walk on. That's my personal opinion. I don't like the way most people make our country look. I think we'd command a lot more respect from those who hate us if we weren't pompous asses about our assets.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 9:56 am 
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Ryven: I don't think we're going to garner any respect at all from those who hate us, regardless of our attitudes. I think you're also exaggerating the amount of "flaunting." Tell me, what do you consider to be flaunting?

Aslantica: It's hard to dig down. All that dirt, rock, etc. has to be disposed of, you have to deal with going below the water table in some cases, and if you plan to build in that fashion I would think that you basically have to design the entire city with that in mind. Seems like temperature regulation could also be a problem with a building the size of the WTC; underground temperature is constant, but the people and equipment inside the building would be generating heat that would have to be disposed of, and that would mean running air shafts/heat conductors all the way up to ground level (or else going laterally with liquid or solid conductors. Still much more trouble than standard heating and air condition). Besides, who wants to work in a hole? It's an office building, it has to be able to attract companies.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:31 pm 
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You don't get it do you?


Heh, I guess it's the culture difference. Here in the states, more shows usually equals a better show. If a show only lasted 10 episodes, then it was obviously cancelled O_o

Or it was a miniseries. Whatever. Mmm....Taken...

Oh ya...about the digging. The entire side of where the WTC is (was, actually) was once submerged in water a few hundred years ago. The place it stands it man made (note: I'm just going off of memory here. I'm pretty sure it was the place the WTC is). That means that you're going to hit water sooner or later. Not to mention heating/cooling/ventilation and all that...

From the picture I saw of the new design, I was wondering something... has anyone found anything out about the 'big, open grassy area' that all the features were supposed to have somewhere? Always wondered how they'd fit that into the design.



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I don't think we're going to garner any respect at all from those who hate us, regardless of our attitudes


Too true. Funny thing is, while most of Britain seems to hate us, I love Britain. More specifically, Tony Blair for supporting us. The Brits are always there for us, just like we were for them. Isn't friendship a beautiful thing?
*hugs PTLIS*


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:16 am 
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Kylaer wrote:
Ryven: I don't think we're going to garner any respect at all from those who hate us, regardless of our attitudes. I think you're also exaggerating the amount of "flaunting." Tell me, what do you consider to be flaunting?


Maybe they won't completely hate us, but a little less hate would be nice. Some hate with some grudging respect could do it too. Hate with grudging respect is much better for us than pure, unbridled flaming hate.

And with flaunting, I'm talking about all the neopatriot fucks who wave american flags around like Baseball Pennants, shouting "AMERICA ROCKS!!!11!!oneoneone" The way I see it, America is one big sore winner. We win the wars and most of the citizens strut around with their chests puffed out like it was *their* doing. All's I'm saying is that a little humility could go a long way.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 2:32 am 
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Ryven wrote:
Kylaer wrote:
Ryven: I don't think we're going to garner any respect at all from those who hate us, regardless of our attitudes. I think you're also exaggerating the amount of "flaunting." Tell me, what do you consider to be flaunting?


Maybe they won't completely hate us, but a little less hate would be nice. Some hate with some grudging respect could do it too. Hate with grudging respect is much better for us than pure, unbridled flaming hate.

And with flaunting, I'm talking about all the neopatriot fucks who wave american flags around like Baseball Pennants, shouting "AMERICA ROCKS!!!11!!oneoneone" The way I see it, America is one big sore winner. We win the wars and most of the citizens strut around with their chests puffed out like it was *their* doing. All's I'm saying is that a little humility could go a long way.


OK, Ryv, name one country in human history that wasn't insufferable in victory? Maybe we should be like all of the other countries who've ever won a war and commence with the genocide and rape? We are the one country that insisted on rebuilding Germany after WWII when the rest of Europe wanted revenge, we went in and rebuilt Japan, every other country who's ever conquered another has either walked away with the booty or stayed and added them to the empire.

But I guess we should garner respect and admiration like Russia and China right? After all, the countries they took over just loved their asses. No America is the sole villain in world history refusing to learn from the kinder wold powers of the Past like Britain and Spain. Treat the people like shit and enslave them like those old-school Mofos and we'll get some respect!!!!

Come back to reality, no one ever has power then blushes modestly about it, the general picture is that people will brag about their power when they don't even have any (France and every petty dictatorship with an Iraqui minister of information).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:45 pm 
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*shrugs* Never said it was the right idea politically, did I? I'm just sick of neopatriots, and our country getting crap from other countries, because we're trying to mother them all without taking care of ourselves first.

We don't have to be modest. We just have to know when to keep our big mouths shut to avoid furthering the problem. Not that it's gonna happen, but it would help, IMHO.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:19 pm 
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The Man In Black wrote:
The funny thing is, America's culture is spreading around and will probably some day envelope all other cultures, barring some major historical event.

Hey, I guess thats the new imperialism, isn't it? Doesn't that make me an imperialist?


So that whole "reality TV" thing was American in origin? Regis Fillmore was the real 'Who Wants to be a Millionaire?' host? Pokemon were really invented by a white guy in California? Wow, the things we learn every day. Spare me.

And there's one itty-bitty thing (among others) that keeps me from believing that the States are really what they're cracked up to be. Bowling for Columbine sums it up pretty nicely. I think after watching that, one can hardly believe the United States to be as bright and shining as some try to make them.

As for nationalsim/patriotism in general, I think the whole kit and kaboodle is an effect of international competition and collision. Nations train their children to be loyal to the fatherland for self-preservation, but making someone loyal is easier if you can pit your cause against another, and other nations happen to fill that role nicely. I think feelings of intense nationalism and patriotism will decrease as borders become blurred and more linguae francae are accepted (as I believed they will, [EU, anyone?]).

And the WTC attacks? Those were most certainly targeted against America, PTLIS, how can you deny that? Admittedly, it wasn't because there's something intrinsic about America that radical Muslims hate; it was simply that America is currently the biggest bully on the block. A century or so ago, I have little doubt that the British Commonwealth would have been the target.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:40 pm 
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"Biggest Bully"?

Yeah so anyway, this had me laughing:

LS wrote:
And there's one itty-bitty thing (among others) that keeps me from believing that the States are really what they're cracked up to be. Bowling for Columbine sums it up pretty nicely. I think after watching that, one can hardly believe the United States to be as bright and shining as some try to make them.


I mean honestly, who can take a farce of a 'documentry' (OMG THE OSCARS ARE POLITICAL?!!!!! MY INNOSENCE IS RUINED!!11oneoneonetwothreefoureleventyone) as accurately reflecting anything in America is beyond me...I mean really, I could go on a long while about it, but please spare me the trouble and take an honest look at it yourself, Moore is hardly the man to get your facts on America from.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:46 pm 
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Lucis, if you base your opinion of America on the words of Michael Moore and his ilk, then you're getting an extremely negatively-biased view. He is a perfect example of the self-hating American. Michael Moore is a guest of honor in Europe specifically because he is so solidly anti-American.

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Admittedly, it wasn't because there's something intrinsic about America that radical Muslims hate


Utterly false. There are indeed things intrinsic to America that are antithetical to the goals of the jihadis; freedom of religion and secular democracy are foremost among these, with equal rights for women right on their heels. The U.S. is not the only nation with these qualities, but it is certainly the most powerful and visible, which is why it earns the title of "Great Satan."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:19 am 
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HEy, don't sell Moore short unless you can prove all and everything of what he says. Yes it is a negitive view, but that does not mean it isn't true. Watching live footage of mass exicutions doesn't mean that humans are incapable of it. Moore shows the worst of America, and America needs to accept that part of itself, not just sweep it under the carpet and hope no one will notice.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:36 am 
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The problem with America isn't how Moore laid it out. He gave the problem the wrong face, so he can't provide a true solution. I know the USA isn't perfect, but people like more twist the inequalities in a morbid way, eventually blurring the real problem in and of itself.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 1:05 am 
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I agree there, but warped or not, you still have to see the problem. It should not be ignored.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:24 am 
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[/on-topic]Hey, I thought Bowling for Columbine was a great fucking movie.[on-topic]


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:52 am 
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I liked the little cartoon, but a lot of it seemed to be some of the stuff I keep hearing over and over again.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:09 am 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
HEy, don't sell Moore short unless you can prove all and everything of what he says. Yes it is a negitive view, but that does not mean it isn't true. Watching live footage of mass exicutions doesn't mean that humans are incapable of it. Moore shows the worst of America, and America needs to accept that part of itself, not just sweep it under the carpet and hope no one will notice.


Proof? Your wish is my command. That article shows just how untrue Moore's "documentary" is.

Please read it all before touting Moore in the future.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:05 pm 
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Hmm... Hard to argue with that. I think that drops his credibility to zero... can you do the same for Jello Biafra. He does the same things as Moore, but in speech form.

(I don't believe that this is going this far. I think everyone can agree that America is NOT PERFECT and has major flaws in it.)

Oh, and while Moore's movie was only half true, that does leave half of the stuff in it

Do you deny that Amerca has the highest gun fatality rate in the world?

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What does that say, exactly? We don't have the highest murder rate, period, so what does it imply about American homocides?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:36 pm 
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as for Bowling... i thought it wasn't bad, i wouldn't say misleading really as any form of leading (essential in a structured film/documentary narative) can be said to be misleading if it doen't follow the line wanted by a particular critic, just because it's a documantary doent' make it holy and pure and unbiased in it's delivery or motives in any way

but anyway, watch out when instantly jumping to the conclusion the the USA has the highest/lowest of something, it's usually incorrect, or at best a special interpretation of figures and facts, and (misleading?) conclusions are very easy to draw, for instance per-capita murder rates dont' take into consideration economic or social factors (yawn) such as everyone living on top of each other in activly anti-scial neighbourhoods, this results in more chances for murder to occur, for instance, than out in the countryside for a whole numbe rof reasons

this is mirrored in most developing and developed nations, murder rates are significantly higher per-capita in built up areas, as such the USA has a high murder rate as a large population lives in built up areas in cnditions condutive to murder, you can throw in any kind of national psyche or murder tendancy slur/truth you like, but the environmental factors alone give it a spike not seen in other, smaller or less developed nations

the United kingdom forinstance has on eof th ehighest teen pregnancy rates in the developed world, the main reasons (could be said to be) lack of strong family structures, free and unguided time with peers and lack of suitable sex education, or you could just say that English kids love to screw, the numerical result is the same either way

you're starting to believe the propaganda, America isn't quite the Great Satan that everyone is making it out to be, it's very young nation still unsure of what's going on, founded on a strict master/servent capitalist basis it has yet to mature into a real country, the civil war was a start but it's not fully worked out a real national identity, in a few hundred years it'll be a little more evened out, untill then it'll be quite a ride...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:56 pm 
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True Bowling wasn't his greatest work, but don't discount Moore. Look back at his earlier work: Roger and Me, TV Nation, and The Big One. He did expose much corruption and hypocrisy within the ranks of big business long before scandals such as WorldCom and Enron hit the front page. It's evident by watching Bowling that he's out to take down Bush and the NRA. It's blatantly obvious, but he's using the same techniques as he always did. As for winning the Oscar, the Academy loves creating a stir, the more buzz a movie has, the more interest and revinue is generated. Welcome to Hollywood.

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