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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:43 pm 
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Kylaer, you're entirely wrong in that respect. Do I really even need to explain why? All data can be manipulated really damn easily.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:07 pm 
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Ero, I know you're just trolling, so all I will say is: how would you go about doing so, for data such as this?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:23 pm 
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The sheer amount of 'unknown' people, for starters. We have, to put it simply, no idea exactly how many people there are in the world. This can skew the results if you decide arbitrarily, or use different sources. Granted, this is not a major skewing of results, but it's something that will inevitably happen.

Amplifying the effect of not knowing how many exact people there are, it's awfully damn hard to calculate 'how much money there is in the world'. What do you consider money? Cash? All assets combined? Property? That's a huge difference.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that your data is six years out of date. There are people born every second.

If the data becomes more current and is wholly defined, yes, it can be made pretty decently clear. But it is hard to agree with your information at all when you use out of date data that you haven't provided any link or information about. And stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:26 pm 
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actor_au wrote:
Actor.
Don't look at me like that: I was originally going to make a Console VS PC gaming thread, this seemed more interesting.


I'm glad you didn't, cuz this may be the result...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:33 pm 
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PTLIS wrote:
Wrong, existing non-forest land could give room to plant enough hemp to have a maintainable system.


As long as we're hijacking this thread, I'll have a go. There seems to be a lot of bullshit flying around on both sides regarding this issue, but the hemp question does seem particularly strange to me...

Isn't industrial hemp legal? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I have a shirt made from it lying around somewhere... and that's not to mention all the hippie gear I see everywhere.

P-M


Last edited by Pyromancer on Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:36 pm 
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Eronarn wrote:
Icy is too set in the belief that the acceptance of all ideas is important

Now wait a minute. When did I say this? I was just saying that there's no objective way to evaluate different cultural mores. Tolerance itself is a cultural more, so if I advocated tolerance, I'd actually be implicitly claiming the superiority of tolerant cultures over intolerant ones. My point is not that all values are equal, but rather that values exist only in the minds of human beings, and thus there's no "objective" way to show that one set of values is better than another.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:01 pm 
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This sentence is a lie.

P-M


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:36 pm 
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Jeez, the discussion about objective morals has been done before, give it a rest, guys. All I'll say about it is that you, Kylear, have made a thorough ass of yourself (yeah, you were right about the statistics, but you tried to argue with Icy's cosmics "but"s and "why?"s, and showed yourself [again] to be either highly unimaginative or a troll), and you, Icy, hijacked the thread. Generally, "does" implies a question, "a" is an indefinate article of the English tongue, "dominant" means biggest and most influential, "worldwide" means accross the globe, "culture" means this, "help" means 'facilitates success in the accomplishment of goals,' and "humanity" means homo sapientes. There are aggreed upon meanings for most words, and unless the progenitor of the discussion mentions going into cosmic "but"s and "why?"s, it's assumed for the purposes of the discussion that we won't.

Anyway, I'm ambivalent to the idea of a single worldwide culture. The way I see it, the only real advantage a one culture system has is that there's little (read: zero) chance of cultural clash (remember when the Fremen emmissary spits on Leto I's table when he first arrives?), while the advantage of a multi-culture system would be that people would generally recognize that there are other ways of thinking out there. I'm not really equipped to decide which is the better advantage, or postulate other advantages or disadvantages, so I will not make a decision now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:38 pm 
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Thanks for summarizing Icy's point so eloquently, Pyro.

Spei, you're still a fucktard.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:29 am 
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I've skimmed over the replies to this thread and found them interesting. However, I wish to add my two cents to the idea that the first post in this thread mentioned, with some inspiration from what I have read from the other posts.

First off, I do not belive that a dominate society would benefit humanity in the long run.

Let's say there is a perfect idea society that everyone can live with and agree on that will sustain humanity till the big bolder in the sky comes down blows life into nothingness.

The question is: what is this perfect society? As far as I can tell, every society has problems and if it were to continue for a long period of time, it could detrimentally affect humanity. For example, the Western society many of us live in is not good for humanity as a whole. I suppose that the fact we don't believe in killing people to make sure the sun rises in the morning is a plus, but the obesity rates in the United States are outrageous. Thus, if the whole world were to live this way, the over all health of humanity would fall. Also, I have read in my Enviromental classes, that earth could not sustainible support a western life style for all 6 billion people on the planet. It is even having trouble now trying to sustain just the United States.

(Unfortunately I don't know much about the faults of other societies, thus can't comment on them here)

I also wish to bring up the idea of Checks and Balances (I don't remember the actual biological term). For every good thing, there usually is a bad thing because of it. For example, democracy is considered a good idea because the general public get a voice in who runs the government. However, in an effort to stay in power, many officals lie, cheat, and mislead the general public. Thus the general public, who elected these officals thinking that they would help them, instead abuse thier power and don't do anything for the people and the people are ignorant of what is going on because they are being lied to.

If this makes no sense I am sorry. I am really not good at debating, but wish to try my hand at it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:21 pm 
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My data on the population and money control came from a book published 2003.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 1:21 pm 
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So what? Where did they get that data? I doubt they collected it themselves. Perhaps they just made it up - I've seen worse done.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 2:32 pm 
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You know, I have reasons for not stating the books name. Even though it has a good research team, jackasses (which when in a debate MIB and Kylear are both) would criticize it for it's frivolous nature. But people have no idea how much Uncle John's Bathroom Reader is a fountain of usless information. Usless information that tends to gain a use in random situations. I tend to think these guys have integraty. They have made mistakes in there previous books but have always corrected themselves to my knowledge. And even if we are generous and go with Ky's statsa, I still say that is pretty fucking unbalanced.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:48 pm 
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I'd prefer US census bearu statistics to your bathroom reader any day, thx.

As to your point: you have neither told us why this is wrong nor what a workable solution would be. Unless you have something to, you know, contribute, thats that.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:57 pm 
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Well if the debate was named how can a dominant society work, then I would do just that. Two second quip that sums up my argument.

Only the perfect society should be the dominant one.
There is no perfect society.
Therefore dominant societies cannot help humanity.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:06 pm 
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I meant that 71% of the wealth in 10% of the peoples' hands.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:51 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
Well if the debate was named how can a dominant society work, then I would do just that. Two second quip that sums up my argument.

Only the perfect society should be the dominant one.
There is no perfect society.
Therefore dominant societies cannot help humanity.


Your reasoning is flawed.

First, intuitively, if the best existing society was dominant, humanity as a whole would benefit, even if the best existing society was not perfect.

Second, there's nothing preventing non-dominant societies from becoming dominant if they have some advantage over the dominant one. "Dominant" doesn't necessarily imply a Thousand Year Reich.

P-M

P.S: Can we just ignore Godwin's Law in this case? It was the best way to phrase it.


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