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Should homosexuals (among other sexualities) be allowed the same basic human rights and freedoms of straight individuals?
Yes, they're called <i>human</i> rights for a reason 92%  92%  [ 36 ]
No, their form of sexuality is their choice. They must accept the consequences. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I'm not all too sure about the topic. I have no opinion. Purposefully or otherwise. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
My opinion isn't listed. This is a stupid question. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 39
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 Post subject: Homophobia
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:20 pm 
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http://xy.com/index.php?t=4&b=1&image_s ... 0hate%20us

That was something I found in the deviantART forums in their discussions. Now, the writer is certainly biased (I don't agree with all he says), but he brings up some interesting points.

<b>What I don't understand is why people are homophobic.</b> Is it shame, fear and resentment?

Okay, darksetyuna, I know the subject makes you uncomfortable. After all, you have your beliefs and they do state that homosexuality is not something to be practiced. Forevergrey, I've heard that you're very against gays. Do you have any logical reasoning?

Would someone look up statistics or studies on how humans can be born hetero/homosexual, or basic human reactions such as nausea in response to public displays of affection? That would be muchly appeciated.

<b>Religion/beliefs, scientific reasoning, cultural developments</b> - I want to hear it all so that there may be some understanding. Not that a simple debate in the forums is going to change the world, but it's still worth thinking about and learning points of view.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:32 pm 
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>_> here we go again.

*Issues tired standard answer #4 to tired standard debate #8*


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:39 pm 
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Has this subject been posted before? I'm sorry... I didn't look at the archives...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:43 pm 
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It's not on the front page.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:54 pm 
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Found one:
http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=1813

It's about marriage rights and legalizations though... and gets into multiple marriages and stuff.

I'm just curious though - not just about marriage, but about school, housing, jobs, social status... human interaction we deal with everyday. What makes sexuality a factor in anything but our private life? What makes it seeing two women walking hand in hand more grotesque than a man and a woman doing the same thing?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:58 pm 
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I notice you only start topics like this once a month.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:17 pm 
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Hey, I just read that tripe you linked, and aside from its many glaring problems, this stood out the most.

NAMBLA could use the EXACT SAME arguement.

Come back when you have something that couldnt be used as an excuse to sodimise children.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 7:22 pm 
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Okay, darksetyuna, I know the subject makes you uncomfortable. After all, you have your beliefs and they do state that homosexuality is not something to be practiced.


WAI? Woah .. I didn't even have a chance to say anything. But I guess you know me, and you know that I'd post anyway. In this case, you were very right.

I don't find two women holding hands any more uncomfortable than one woman glomping and death hugging the other. Two women holding hands is not something I see and automatically think ...OMEG THEY'RE GAY!

It's not entirely a religion thing either. The past couple of years I've been straying from the Christian religion. I take of your dad's view on it. It's good to follow the religion as a sense of morals .. but do I pray anymore? Mebbe when I need it. And when I do, it's not particularly to Jesus or God .. it's to someone or thing (fate, luck, God? not specified) that could possibly help me out at that moment. So ... bleh. Not a religion thing.

To tell you quite frankly, I don't know why I'm against gays. I'm certainly not homophobic, lets get that straight right now. I'm not, simply because ... if I was ... I wouldn't have a lot of the friends that I do. I know that for some people, this is a very touchy subject (AHEM ... Ceci .. ahem) but it just isn't for me. People can do whatever the hell they want to, and I can react just as I want to as well. I'm not one of those people who drive out and tie gays to their bumpers and ride down the highway, people bumping behind them. ...Nor am I one of those idiots who go around screaming: "GAYs ARE BAD! GOD IS PUNISHING THEM! THE APOCALYPSE IS COMIIING!" Who I find just as irritating as those running around, screaming the other view that: "GAYS ARE GREAT! THEY ARE MY BEST FRIENDS! I WOULD BE GAY IF I COULD! STOP THE GAY HOLOCAUST!"

There is just something about seeing two women kissing in public or fondling in public (this applies to men too) that disgusts me. I don't have any particular justification for this disgust, but that's fine, I figure ... because unlike everyone else in the world, I won't hate people for opposing my thoughts.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:07 pm 
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darksetyuna wrote:
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There is just something about seeing two women kissing in public or fondling in public (this applies to men too) that disgusts me. I don't have any particular justification for this disgust, but that's fine, I figure ... because unlike everyone else in the world, I won't hate people for opposing my thoughts.


Same could apply to my feelings for any people kissing or fondling in public.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:42 pm 
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Forevergrey wrote:
Hey, I just read that tripe you linked, and aside from its many glaring problems, this stood out the most.

NAMBLA could use the EXACT SAME arguement.

Come back when you have something that couldnt be used as an excuse to sodimise children.


Yeah, it was a very poorly written article. I didn't say I agreed with everything he wrote. But a freedom to sexuality. And I suppose I'll link the debate on sex age limits.
http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=3749

It just got me thinkin' is all. Well, I was thinking beforehand, but this was the step it took.

Anyway... something personal just came up and I can no longer continue

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:51 pm 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
Yeah, it was a very poorly written article. I didn't say I agreed with everything he wrote. But a freedom to sexuality. And I suppose I'll link the debate on sex age limits.
http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=3749


Yeah, uh.. I kinda summed up that debate as well. Scroll down.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:51 am 
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This is a stigma against people who are anti-gay. There is prejudice with every minority, yet when someone is prejudice agianst someone who is homosexual, it is immediatly because they are afraid of it spreading out because they themselves are secretly gay or want to be. This is just simply not true. Everyone should get equal rights, but simply because one is anti-gay doesn't mean its because he wants to be one. Its like saying the KKK really just wants to be Snoop Dog.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:40 am 
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Forevergrey wrote:
I notice you only start topics like this once a month.


Ahhh. So, what? Your blaming the fact she is openminded and finds extreme homophobia disturbing, and the fact she posts topics for the discussion of predjudice on the Discussion forum, on PMS? Jesus. Im as much of a fan as PMS as the next poor hapless bastard, but I dont blame social concern on periods, for fucks sake.

Any straight person that has a more complicated view on homosexuality other then "It doesnt affect me, it never will affect me, so therefore I dont care" is being a bigot to some degree or other. I dont care whether your reasons for not wanting equal rights or marriage laws are religion based, or you "Just dont think its right." or "Its not NAT'RAL, Cletus *hyuk*".

Someone give me ONE damn bullet proof reason why a gay person is any less of a person then a straight person, or one good reason why seperate marriage laws or any other form of segregation or different treatment is necessary. Note: Fictional reasons, and religious crap relating to "The sanctity of marriage" or aspersions to bestiality or pedophilia dont count. Marriage might be some wonderful peice of crap to you, but to a lot of people, marriage is open to all.

Forevergray, your argument has been used over and over again. (If we allow people to do the sinful fornicatin' devil-thing with people of their own gender, surely that will instantly lead to the legalisation of bestiality with underage puppies?). The argument is bullshit, and has always been bullshit. Sex can occur between any people of any number, and as long as everyone present is conssenting and capable of consenting in every possibly mental capacity, its all gravy. People too mentally damaged to make fully informed consent, or young children who dont know the full societal implications of sex or who arnt biologically developed to the point where they can deal with it, do NOT count as giving full consent. Its all about consent between equals, nothing else matters. Personally Im amazed by the fact that anyone can still get away with trying to impose restrictions or laws on other peoples private consensual fun, and therefore taking away that persons very liberties which all you Americans wont shut up about.

We COULD always do the "Civil Union" bullshit, and go down the whole road of segregation. After all, the seperate race schools and the segregated neighbourhoods that all surfaced after black people started getting rights all worked just so damn well, didnt they? Segregation has always worked as a way of acheiving equality and a lack of animosity. Just look at the human races track record!

There we go. I dont have a vagina, and by extension no PMS, so you now cant blame the humanitarian opinion on a rush of hormones.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:18 am 
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Quote:
Forevergrey wrote:
I notice you only start topics like this once a month.


Ahhh. So, what? Your blaming the fact she is openminded and finds extreme homophobia disturbing, and the fact she posts topics for the discussion of predjudice on the Discussion forum, on PMS? Jesus. Im as much of a fan as PMS as the next poor hapless bastard, but I dont blame social concern on periods, for fucks sake.


...You're actually spending time with this?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:15 am 
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Okay, I think everyone needs to chill out a little bit...

I think the main reason so many otherwise open-minded people object to homosexuality is simply that they don't understand it, by this I mean that because they have no leanings towards being with a person of the same gender they cannot understand why some-one would feel thusly, just as I have no persuasions towards bestiality I cannot understand how someone would entertain the though of partaking in sexual activities with an animal. (And just incase anyone thinks I am making a parallel between homosexuality and bestiality I am not, it is simply the best analogy I could muster). It is basic human nature to fear something that we don't understand, another analogy would be the aboriginal people of Australia (or native Americans, I don't recall which, though I think it is the former) who when they first encountered camera's feared them because they believed it stole their soul.

Now about the article: It is a crock of shit, shameless 'them against us' propaganda which, if the roles had been reversed, would have been massively denounced by the gay community as inciting homophobic hatred. There were some good points, namely morality should be a set of beliefs which stop hurting each other; thusly no form of love, homosexual included, can ever be immoral. Another one would be the denouncement of the traditional belief that "sex is bad", because it isn't, it is (to me at least) the truest, purest way to show your love to another. Assuming all people are consenting adults and are fully aware of the actions they are committing and the consequences of these actions I can see no good argument against any form of sex, straight or gay, monogamous or polygamous. (Note, I don't count religious morality as a good argument because that is based on a belief that not everyone shares)

I would write more but I am at work ATM and rather busy...

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:55 am 
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Eronarn wrote:
darksetyuna wrote:
Quote:
There is just something about seeing two women kissing in public or fondling in public (this applies to men too) that disgusts me. I don't have any particular justification for this disgust, but that's fine, I figure ... because unlike everyone else in the world, I won't hate people for opposing my thoughts.


Same could apply to my feelings for any people kissing or fondling in public.


I was always uncomfortable around any public displays of affection, gay or straight.

Though to tell you the truth, gays (at least the ones I know) do see to be better about that whole thing, but maybe that's because of the cutural stigma against their lifestyle. Who knows.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:17 am 
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Cenwood wrote:
Image


Whats this? Oh yes, Cenwood posted again.

Appears that somehow due to the fact that Kali tends to angst out and I didnt bust out a fuckin gay pride banner that I must be a gay bashing no-brained Alabama Man.

Moron... Im a big fan of woman spraying blood out of there vagina too, that doesnt rob me of the chance to make fun of it.

Also not ONCE did I say anything that was anti-gay. It appears that, once again Cenwood the ultra-fucktarded wooly liberal was so keen to jump in and rob the world of all its sharp corners that he started the anti-anti-gay rant before ANYONE ACTED ANTI GAY. Fuckhead >__>

Are you even capable of sustaining an erection, you wooly-minded mental midget? or are you worried it might offend lesbians and hetrosexual men?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:18 am 
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Forevergrey wrote:
*snip toilet picture*
Whats this? Oh yes, Cenwood posted again.

Appears that somehow due to the fact that Kali tends to angst out and I didnt bust out a fuckin gay pride banner that I must be a gay bashing no-brained Alabama Man.


No, you are a no-brained fuckwitted moron because you hide you homophobic beliefs behind a "Well, Im not SCARED of them, I just disagree with them and dont like them." And because you periodically post a load of pseudo-intellectual crap, and failing to back up your opinions in any way, shape or form. And because you are a generally innoying, immature little prick. Also, you think posting pictures from your toilet fetish website is the zenith of sophistication and humor. I would go on, but Im bored of talking about you already.

Forevergrey wrote:
Moron... Im a big fan of woman spraying blood out of there vagina too, that doesnt rob me of the chance to make fun of it.


No, it doesnt. However, replying to a post with "Yeah? WELL YOUR WRONG BECAUSE YOUR A WOMAN WITH PMS OMG IAM SUCH A ROCKET SCIENTIST PAY ATTENTION TO ME TO DISTRACT ME FROM MY PENIS ENVY" Is pretty stupid. Im hardly a crusading feminist, but dismissing someones opinion because they are a woman is pretty fucking stupid.

Forevergrey wrote:
Also not ONCE did I say anything that was anti-gay. It appears that, once again Cenwood the ultra-fucktarded wooly liberal was so keen to jump in and rob the world of all its sharp corners that he started the anti-anti-gay rant before ANYONE ACTED ANTI GAY. Fuckhead >__>


So you do accept that lifestyle? Heh/

Forevergrey wrote:
Are you even capable of sustaining an erection, you wooly-minded mental midget? or are you worried it might offend lesbians and hetrosexual men?


Dude...whats with all the wooly references? Are you mentally trying to picture me as a sheep, or something? What the fuck is wrong with you? I COULD respond with a load of witty "My penis is bigger then your penis, <insert comparison of your penis to various small objects here.>" But Im not going to, because its infantile and pathetic and isnt actually relevent to the topic. Also, you seem insecure enough in that area....any comments I make would probably drive you to self mutilation or suicide.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:19 am 
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Cenwood wrote:
Also, you think posting pictures from your toilet fetish website is the zenith of sophistication and humor.


dude! i have years subscription to the company that runs that website

(check your URLs before you hit the caps lock and start the cussin')

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:40 am 
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I'm in favor of gays coming out of the closet. That will make it easier to round them up and kill them all, when the proper time comes.

On a more serious note...

I don't disapprove of men having sex with other men. I do, however, disapprove strongly of the "gay culture" that has developed among homosexuals in the U.S. (multiple sex partners, unsafe methods, etc.).

Quote:
Someone give me ONE damn bullet proof reason why a gay person is any less of a person then a straight person


Life expectancy. Again, this is due to the prevailing culture rather than to anything intrinsic in homosexuality itself.


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