First off, to the folks who are saying that I don't know how obnoxious Grievre's been on other forums (BDM05, krylex, and The Baron, I'm pretty sure; sorry if I missed anyone else), you're absolutly right, and I won't say that he hasn't gotten himself near to banned elsewhere without checking on it. I was assuming krylex's remark referred simply to the content of this thread (there was no explicit "this combined with your actions elsewhere leads you to be treading a thin line" in the post, hence my confusion--sorry if I misread the message there). So yeah, while I still don't think anything he's said here merits banning, I won't speak for his behavior outside of this thread one way or another.
Grievre, man, you're killing me. I think it's great that someone is calling into question the way we do initiations, I really do, but all this flak your catching is because you're just shooting off a couple sentances in reply to every random post that comes your way, and you're not really agknowledging a lot of what gets said in them. Sit back, relax, remember we're all, if not exactly friends, than at least reasonably chill with one another here, and take a look at people's posts. If someone really does come in here and starts shooting off a bunch of "Hey Grievre j00 sux0rs dick" posts, then bitch 'em out once and ignore it, but you don't have to devote an entire post to telling us that you were too lazy to look up onion's screen name (what the hell else do you want us to call them, anyway?). Just save it for the next time you reply to a long argument. Nothing wrong with starting out with a quick,
polite, "Hey onion, sorry about that, I was just in a rush and didn't have time to look up who posted that comment." Really, if you're going to try to sell your point, you're probably better off taking the time to make one solid post replying to a series of arguments rather than dashing off a reply every time someone posts in this thread. Time be time, mon (and extra weenie points for anyone who gets that reference).
Rae wrote:
Kyhm is not serving us coffee. He is just giving us a place to talk. If internet webboards serve coffee (or some other primary purpose besides being a "forum") then I want to know why the hell hasn't anyone bought me a cup to shut me up?
Sorry to get all hung up on that; I'll concede we aren't equivilent to a coffeeshop. I just thought the definition you offered kind of matched the idea of a forum, too, and gave in to the impulse to be a bit of a smart-ass. Sorry about that. Still, though, is the idea behind my comparison coming across? All I meant by bringing up coffeehouses in the first place was to illustrate how initiations are sort of like yelling abuse at people who wander into a public place you hang out at for the first time. You could picture the same scene in a library, or a beach, or wherever else you want, I just wanted to sort of put the whole idea in a different light by comparing initiations to what would happen if we tried to work that way in real life.
Rae wrote:
Next, my (personal and observed) opinion of a community is an entity that decides how it will grow internally. Granted, here in the US, land of the free, our communities are fairly open, but they still force rules (ie, they might make sex offenders announce themselves, or, back in the 60s, many "white" communities did everything in their power, non KKK style, to keep black people out of them, even if the black person could legally own property in said community. Go watch "A Raisin in the Sun" for an example.)
I'm not disagreeing that communities do shape themselves internally, but it is worth noting that frequently that includes discussing whether or not to get rid of old methods. For example, we no longer (for the most part) have communities which do everything in their power to keep black people out (and I've read "A Rasin in the Sun," so no worries about my misinterpreting that as KKK rallies and cross-burnings or anything; I get what you're talking about). So, while I won't say that communities don't shape and to some degree police themselves (as in the case of making sex offenders announce themselves as such, in your example), I would say that that doesn't mean people in the community can't question the way it's being done. I'd even go so far as to say that it doesn't mean the community should resist change in the way it polices itself, nessecarily.
Rae wrote:
We here at KyhmForum actually have several communities, and ES/EN/UnRel are majoritially overlapped members of the community. If a n00b wants to post in another forum, I let that community handle it, but, seeing as RMG and G are the only people outright screaming that inits should stop, it seems that majority at least accepts initiations, and I do think they serve to keep this place nearly troll free.
That's cool, and I'm not saying I see any burning need for change (as I've said repeatedly, I have no vested interest either for or against the way initiations are handled now), but it is important, argumetativly speaking, to realize that apathy and approval are not nessecarily the same thing. That RMG and Grievre are the only two vehemently against initiations does not mean that everyone else, or even the majority, are for them. Just something to be careful of, rhetorically.
Rae wrote:
Because we are bigger asshats than them, and when they start trolling, we usually stop listening, and thus we don't feed the troll. Inits, for one part, are welcoming wagon, and for another, are a trap for trolls. After all, what troll would resist the flame-alicious bait an init offers?
Mm, this is, as I mention in my last post, only true most of the time. I have seen initiations spiral out of control when the n00b in question talks back, and they can get pretty thread-consuming. I won't say it's a regular occurence, but I remember some downright obnoxious ones. 'Course, for all I know, every n00b on the EN boards who's been initiated shuts up and takes it; I won't profess to know how things go over there. Actually, that's probably something everyone should keep in mind while reading my posts--I'm not actually that much of a regular even here, and this is the only board on Khym's forums that I frequent, so I am a couple years out of touch with the mainstream. Some of my assumptions may no longer be true; if so could someone be sure to let me know when I screw up? 'preciate it.
Rae wrote:
Right, I'm gonna do what I can to not post in this thread anymore, you know, shy of someone actually giving some intellectual arguments.
Hey, man, that's harsh. Sure, there's some chatter, but folks are trying here. Maybe some harder than others, maybe no, but we can still all be reasonably cool with each other. No call for that. Don't mean to lecture or shake fingers, just sayin', you know?
Kestenvarn wrote:
Good post, Treespeaker.
Hey, now I'm blushing. Peace, man.