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 Post subject: Initiations
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:04 pm 
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It's no secret that I dislike the practice of initiations in the ES forum, however, I've
been told to take my opinions here by unnamed personages.

I would have to be an idiot to not realize I'm facing an uphill battle here.

So, anyone feel like providing intelligent arguments against my points? They include

1) The practice is childish
2) It scares users away and/or alienates them
3) It can be pretty creepy
4) It distracts from the actual topic of conversation
5) It's elitist.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:21 pm 
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Ok, but you are building a case here, so back it up. I know of different situations where each one of your points may apply, but you need to attach some proof to complete the argument. Simply listing your points won't do much, as you have nothing to back it up, it is instantly negated in a solid debate due to lack of proof.

If you want a little help in your research, do a search for LadyCosmo, but also, look at Adrian's Archive for some historic initiations and a little background on how they began and where they have gone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:39 pm 
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Okay backing up for point #5, the now infamous "Just wondering..." thread

New person asks a question, which, while n00bish, is legitimate.

I count seven "Let's initiate this idiot" posts before my "hey fucktards", and not a single
post even ACKNOWLEDGING the question he asked.

There are 18 posts, including my arguments (to be fair), before someone even ADDRESSES
the original poster.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:44 pm 
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More examples, although not necessarily initiation-related:

http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=5723

I really love the first reply! Way to greet a new user.

As if everyone is psychic enough to post to the introductions thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Initiations
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:52 pm 
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Grievre wrote:
1) The practice is childish

:roll: It's our way of saying "Hi."
Grievre wrote:
2) It scares users away and/or alienates them

Good. It's our way of saying, "Hey, this is our sick, twisted humor. Don't like this example? Maybe you shouldn't stick around!"
Grievre wrote:
3) It can be pretty creepy

Some would call that, "Creative." Also see above.
Grievre wrote:
4) It distracts from the actual topic of conversation

You OBVIOUSLY haven't been around enough to realize that topics deviate like MAD here, and we let it go. Why stop intellectual conversation?
Grievre wrote:
5) It's elitist.

I repeat, You OBVIOUSLY haven't been around enough. Plus I just don't quite see it. ANYONE around here long enough knows that they can initiate new guys/trolls after a month or so.

Grievre wrote:
More examples, although not necessarily initiation-related:

http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=5723

I really love the first reply! Way to greet a new user.

As if everyone is psychic enough to post to the introductions thread.


Note that 5 posts down, the same person to threaten ADOPTS same poster.

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 Post subject: Awfully long post for someone who doesn't care ...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:00 pm 
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Just for your own information Grievre, (If you don't already know) the issue of initiations has be discussed to death. Repeatedly.<span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: smaller";>1,2,3</span>

And the entire forum doesn't automatically care for them either.

I myself don't terribly care one way or another. It seems like only about half<span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: smaller";>4</span> the incoming noobs get inits anyway. Unless, of course, they break Rule Number One<span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: smaller";>5</span> and create a new thread to introduce themselves in, resulting in either automatic init or DNI.

Why is this Rule Number One? Because if you start a new thread to introduce yourself (especially one with little or no interesting content) it makes you look like an attention whore without the courtesy to listen to what other people are saying before you start talking about yourself.


As for point #5, allow me to quote the Immortal Gord<span style="vertical-align: super; font-size: smaller";>6</span>:
The Gord wrote:
"Why are you such an ass!?"
"Because I hate you, and I'm smarter than you."

So that explains that.

-------------------------
1. <a href="http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?p=127576#127576">Yevaud's initiation meta-post</a>
2. <a href="http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=5430&start=0">Founding of the COI</a>
3. <a href="http://forums.kyhm.com/viewtopic.php?t=2593&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=init+dni&&start=980">A number of posts in the intro thread about noobs, inits, DNIs</a> (I'm sure there are more)
4. Totally just guesstimating.
5. Not an actual board rule. More of a common-sense rule of thumb. But then most of the board rules here seem to be unwritten. Which is okay, most of the time.
6. <span style="color: black; background-color: black;">Yes, for those who didn't quite catch it: This is a JOKE</span>

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:03 pm 
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The initiationas are a part of this forum, like it or not.
You don't like it, you can't ignore them, You have a choice:
Accept it of just bloody well piss off.
This place is voluntary, just like listening to radio, or watching the TV.
Don't like it, shange the channel or shut it off.
If you want to change poeple into your manner of thinking alone, go become a fucking politician, or a radical terrorist, or some other crap.
Just dont let the proverbial door hit you in the ass on the way out, as it could give you brain damage poindexter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:32 pm 
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Initiations don't have to be read, i've read 2 ish, one which involved ice cream and no anal violation, and another that made me like cry 1/3 of the way in (I_M's....) n00bs don't have to read them, and the current trend is adoptions and DNI's if you prove yourself worthy.

They may be a lil' bit childish, and scary in the hands of the more umm... creative people, but they serve their purpose, and they're optional. You can usually tell an init a million miles away.

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DNIed with Much love by Ancient

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:31 am 
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I'm not quite sure what to make of them. They can seem pretty childish and a real attention-sink. But the ES forums are troll-free, winy-snide-adolescents-calling-their-moral-betters-nazis-free, spam-core-porn-free, nobody launches into two page threads at some harmless pron (Ghastly and Buttsex in '04!) and effectively unmoderated.

Eh. I'm not all that hot about the FBI either. But damn if I won't let myself profit from their existence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:04 am 
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MR. Dead wrote:
The initiationas are a part of this forum, like it or not.
You don't like it, you can't ignore them, You have a choice:
Accept it of just bloody well piss off.


Racism is part of this country, like it or not. You don't like it, you can't ignore it, you have a choice: Accept it or just bloody well piss off.

Quote:
This place is voluntary, just like listening to radio, or watching the TV.
Don't like it, shange the channel or shut it off.


This is not radio or TV. If it was, I wouldn't spend so much time here. The thing that makes internet communities like this better forms of entertainment than radio or TV is that they are interactive (i.e. you can change them), and, well, communities, made up of individuals. Communities change when the individuals within them change. And hopefully, as the individual forum regulars begin to grow up and stop acting like children, initiations will stop.


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 Post subject: Re: Initiations
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:10 am 
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Grievre wrote:
1) The practice is childish
It's our running theme.
Quote:
2) It scares users away and/or alienates them
This is a general trend as well.
Quote:
3) It can be pretty creepy
I prefer to think of it as 'sampling the product.'
Quote:
4) It distracts from the actual topic of conversation
If you find one let us know we will have it deleted and the offender banned immediately.
Quote:
5) It's elitist.
I think you are catching on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:39 am 
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way to bite my Style Revvy

*points up*

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 Post subject: Re: Initiations
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:00 pm 
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BDM05 wrote:
way to bite my Style Revvy

*points up*


*whistles innocently*

Grievre wrote:
1) The practice is childish

How did you come to this conclusion? I will address this point if you elaborate on the reasoning behind this statement.

Grievre wrote:
2) It scares users away and/or alienates them

Imho this is a good thing, it seperates the wheat from the chaff so to speak; if a n00b is initiated and never returns then it makes one wonder what they would add, if anything, to this community.

Grievre wrote:
3) It can be pretty creepy

If you say so.

Grievre wrote:
4) It distracts from the actual topic of conversation

True, but then often the 'topic of conversation' is a thread where the n00b said "hi, i'm a n00b". When this is the case then there isn't really a topic of conversation, more a self-gratifying thread by a person who most likely does this on several forums a day and will never return.

Grievre wrote:
5) It's elitist.

Once again how did you come to this conclusion; I have always seen initiations as a way to welcom a n00b into the fold and infact as a form od acceptance.

ptlis

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:31 pm 
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Initiations are a great way for people to feel better about their penises (penises? penii? penopod? who the fuck knows). Including the parts you have to read between the lines, your typical initiation goes like this: "I take StoopidNoobs spleen and shove it up his ass. I am typing this, therefore I am able to do it, therefore I have a large penis." This of course applies for penis-deprived individuals (re: girls) boosting their egos as well; mental penis-inflation is just the best example of the syndrome.

Is this, per se, a bad thing? Quite honestly, it seems like a pretty minor evil, at worst. I've been on sports teams, in Boy Scouts, etc., so I'm not exactly unfamiliar with hazing of a more tangible form; forum initiations are, after all, just a mental game. On the other hand, while the person tying you to a tree and beating you with a knotted rope actually has justification for feeling empowered, people who write long, detailed, and graphic initiation procedures are, in the final analysis, wanking. Don't mean to say don't do it--far be it from me to rain on anyone else's head-trip--just saying as how it's a little, well, sad, really. Peace out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:43 pm 
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Treespeaker wrote:
penopod









:D
Is that like the thing in The Abyss?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:12 pm 
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I'm glad to say I have never been, nor will I ever, EVER be a member of boy scouts,
sports teams, fraternities, or other such cesspools of stupidity. After seeing what happened
at Mepham HS Quite Close to Here (if you're unfamiliar with the incident, it involved members
of a football team and anal rape with pinecones and broomsticks), I'm very happy to have
made this decision.

EDIT: I'm adding this here even though it's unrelated so I don't get initiated for the FOURTH
time for breaking the unwritten "don't double post" rule:

Are we going to get an actual list of rules so people don't break them?

EDIT #2: I don't like the "Leave if you don't like it", because this is supposed to be a forum
for discussion of a comic, not an elitist, immature social club.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:41 pm 
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Aww, don't get your PENOPOD in a flutter.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:53 pm 
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I see argumentum ad hominem isn't taboo here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:01 pm 
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I really don't see that initiations are all that bad. Everyone above doing the listy-thingy is about right in my opinion, so I won't add my two bits there. But I did think I'd add a bit for the following:

It's not necessarily a bad thing to be alienating potential members. This forum is unique. We like our oddities. And if initiations scare someone off, chances are they wouldn't have fit in all that well anyway. ((The odd sense of humor and teh BUTTSEX are everywhere here. Why not give it to them all at once from the start?))

Also, I don't really think we need a more clearly written set of rules than already exists. I think it's kind of fun to learn as you go. Keeps you on your toes, shows how quickly you pick up on things, etc. Also, I think a lot of people do what I did and lurk for a really long time before finally joining. While lurking you can't help but pick up a little info on the way things are done. Some forums require you to lurk for a certain amount of time before posting, you know.

And, aren't you the one who said it's just text, Grievre, and it can never do any real harm? Doesn't this make the whole debate a moot point?

Like PoohCutie said, don't read them if you don't like them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:06 pm 
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Grievre wrote:
EDIT #2: I don't like the "Leave if you don't like it", because this is supposed to be a forum
for discussion of a comic, not an elitist, immature social club.


Here, here. Contrary to popular belief, this community didn't spring up because we like "twisted humor"-- we're here because we like comics by Poe, et. al.

I've thought initiations have been dumb for a while, but eventually I managed to accept it as just being part of forum culture.

But with this CoI shit, things have reached a new level of asshattry.


The Council of Initiation just rubs me the wrong way. It's like you're just going, "hay dudes were cool and we so run these forums rite now so if u dont liek it u can leev!!!!!". Vigilante justice.

Plus, a lot of initiations involve rape and/or sexual abuse.

And rape

is
NEVER
funny
.

Now that I think about it, it's especially worse in the context of an initiation, since it implies that the victim somehow deserves it. Like this is the fucking 1900s or something. What the hell is wrong with you people?

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