ZOMBIE FORUMS

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:19 pm 
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your casualty count is off by about 5 or 600. and that's KIA, not including injured.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:38 pm 
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I think she might just be referring to the timeframe between the start and "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED." The rest are probably just considered fun fun occupation hazards.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:02 pm 
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Radio wrote:
I think she might just be referring to the timeframe between the start and "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED." The rest are probably just considered fun fun occupation hazards.


Well, seeing as I found that fact off of conservative material that was based only on the duration of the war (comparing it to past war casualties), I'd suspect this was the case. >__>

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:01 pm 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
Radio wrote:
I think she might just be referring to the timeframe between the start and "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED." The rest are probably just considered fun fun occupation hazards.


Well, seeing as I found that fact off of conservative material that was based only on the duration of the war (comparing it to past war casualties), I'd suspect this was the case. >__>
And apparently ignoring the Kosovo War with its short duration and little to no American casualties (albeit more Chinese casualties, maybe they count for ten Americans or something).

And I know, no legal war since WWII, yadda, yadda, war, conflict, its all the same.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:32 pm 
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eean wrote:
Kali_Ava wrote:
Radio wrote:
I think she might just be referring to the timeframe between the start and "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED." The rest are probably just considered fun fun occupation hazards.


Well, seeing as I found that fact off of conservative material that was based only on the duration of the war (comparing it to past war casualties), I'd suspect this was the case. >__>
And apparently ignoring the Kosovo War with its short duration and little to no American casualties (albeit more Chinese casualties, maybe they count for ten Americans or something).

And I know, no legal war since WWII, yadda, yadda, war, conflict, its all the same.


PWN3D D:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:34 pm 
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I just lost an hour long post to random board log-out. I go cry now.

One quick point first:
eean wrote:
And apparently ignoring the Kosovo War with its short duration and little to no American casualties (albeit more Chinese casualties, maybe they count for ten Americans or something).

the "Kosovo War" definition in Wikipedia that you linked only shows the 77 day air war. Not one american soldier was on the ground in Kosovo at any time during this "war". If you want a "real" undeclared war, you have to go back to Desert Storm at least. If memory serves, 99 US Soldiers were killed during the operation. Making the current war in Iraq the second least deadly war in the history of America, even using current casualty figures.

There are still US troops in Kosovo and Bosnia, both initiated by Clinton.

Don't be fooled by either side's propaganda. They'll both lie to you if you let them.

edit: fixed broken quote

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Last edited by Emy on Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:28 pm 
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Kali Ava wrote
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Nobody's a hero because of this. All the politicians who voted to go to war with Iraq state publically that they felt justified. They all accept that we have made a commitment, and that we have no choice but to follow through. However, going to war with no allied help and with inadequetely armed forces is harshly criticised.



People forget though we had help, over what? 30 countries gave troops to the effort, with contributions as small as 30 people. Some criticise that that's not an international coalition and the country doesn't count because it didn't give so many troops to the effort. I say screw that, hell even Mongolia gave troops to this effort, everyone helped, just because France nor Germany wanted to take care of an obvious problem that had been plaguing the world for some time doesn't make it an international coalition? I think not.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:03 pm 
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Because as we all know, largely symbolic membership in the coalition of the willing is totally equivalent to having actual troop support. Especially when the actual invasion occurred and we only had five countries sending in troops as well(UK 45,000, Australia 2,000... and well, it kinda drops off sharply from there).


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:35 pm 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
Nobody's a hero because of this. All the politicians who voted to go to war with Iraq state publically that they felt justified. They all accept that we have made a commitment, and that we have no choice but to follow through. However, going to war with <b>insuffiecient troop support from allying countries</b> and with inadequetely armed forces is harshly criticised.


:P
I would go on more, but I'm going through a few difficulties at the moment, and have not the resources to debate right now.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:39 pm 
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your casualty count is off by about 5 or 600. and that's KIA, not including injured.

On 08 September 2004, the total US casualty count in Iraq reached 1000.

Still far less than 1/10th the lowest casualty estimate of any previous war in US history.

Of course, part of that is because due to the improvements in body armor and medicine, many people survive who would have died in any previous war, usually crippled, but sometimes unharmed, or with only minor injuries.

A slightly differnet spin on the news than most of you usually see

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:06 pm 
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This amused me. Highly.

Gacked from Darkie, gacked from a friend in dabate, gacked from someone else wrote:
RESUME GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520


EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE


Law Enforcement:


I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving
under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.


Military:


I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to a void combat duty in Vietnam.


College:


I graduated from Yale University with a low C average.
I was a cheerleader.



PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:


I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the
oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:


- I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil
companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the
Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles
as the most smog-ridden city in America.

- I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune
of billions in borrowed money.

- I set the record for the most executions by any governor in
American history.

- With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and
my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became
President after losing by over 500,000 votes.



ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:


- I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office
with a criminal record.

- I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost
of over one billion dollars per week.

- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

- I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

- I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies
filed in any 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

- I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

- I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President.

- I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

- My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my
best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History: Enron.

- My political party used Enron private jets and corporate
attorneys to ensure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court
during my election decision.

- I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

- I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

- I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

- I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

- I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest
bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

- I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

- I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.

- I refused to allow inspector's access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees, and have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

- I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).

- I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

- I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August 2001, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

- I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the
World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made
the U.S. the most hated country in the world---the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

- I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

- I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

- I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime.

- In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

- I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

- I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker
Buster," a WMD.

- I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama
Bin Laden to justice.


RECORDS AND REFERENCES:


- All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

- All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading
and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and
unavailable for public view.

- All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.


PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004!


Darksetyuna wrote:
Now someone do Kerry.


I would almost like to see the lists of benefits that Bush's term in office have awarded us - besides a great feel of nationalism/patriotic togetherness.

So how many things are lies and/or misleading things? Because this is biased to such a degree that I don't think I'll take everything in as a fact. It seems more like propaganda or something.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:49 pm 
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Some of that crap can't be blamed on bush, even if he was in office when it happened.

The WTC attack could have happened to anyone, it was bad timing.
Economies don't just go up or down, the causes of any economic shift goes back years, if not decades.

And "First president to enter with a criminal record?" The only criminal thing in that post was a drunk driving charge. Nothing else. Whoop-di-FUCKING-do! Give me a felony, or sod off!

And he avoided going to vietnaam? What a shocker! Tons of people were looking for ways to do just that!

Graduated Yale with a low-C. At least he graduated, and who the fuck cares what his extra-curricular activities were? How many of you that have gone to college even had an extra-curriculars in college?

I like this one the best...
Quote:
- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

Which is to say, we wern't TRILLIONS (that a lot of fucking zeros) in debt prior to the presidental election that brough bush into office.

Quote:
- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

Okay, so we've established that his cabinet have no need for kickbacks. Fair enough. The most uncorruptable person is the person who already has everything they want, so there is nothing to bribe them with.

Quote:
- I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Any qualifications here? Misdemeners? Felonies? What? I doubt there many people out there who have not even had a traffic ticket. Technically speaking, the traffic rules are laws, and breaking a law makes you a criminal, and getting caught makes you a convicted criminal. So getting a traffic ticket (that's not overturned) makes you into a convicted criminal.

"You know, Bob, your company is the best one for the job, but I see you got a speeding ticket 14 years ago, so I'm afraid I can't award this government contract to you. Sorry."

========

That's enough for now, I've got to do something else that involves turning this computer off, so bugger off and think for yourselves.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:52 pm 
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Someone actually did a piece-by-piece debunking of that awhile ago. I can't say it was an unbiased debunking, but it had a lot of good points.

[EDITY]

Herbal Enema wrote:
Which is to say, we wern't TRILLIONS (that a lot of fucking zeros) in debt prior to the presidental election that brough bush into office.


I hate it when people think debt and deficit are the same thing. All the surplus means is, for a very brief period, we didn't actually have to borrow MORE MONEY to pay for crap. Not that we didn't have an outstanding balance at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 4:52 pm 
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I'm sure if I brought my friend to the forums, she'd be repulsed about the debate in this thread. She is one of the most politically active students I know, who gets fed up with debates more professional than these. Seriously, I refuse to debate her because she's the most well-informed Republican I've ever known. She could probably refute everything on there. And that's why I'd be scared to post that "resume" on my LJ that she reads.

I don't think Bush is evil. I think he's just like every other average american. Unfortunately, every average american isn't fit to hold office and make such important decisions if they have such a terrible cabinet to do all the thinking for them. I don't blame Bush for much, I just think him unfit for office (lacking in presidential/leadership skills for the foreign policy requirements; economic practicality; and an sound, intelligent mind).

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 3:40 am 
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Quote:
The WTC attack could have happened to anyone, it was bad timing.

I would hope that the NSA, CIA, FBI, et cetera, do something. Which is to say, yes, he could have made a difference, and it's not just "bad timing." Though I'm certainly not saying I expect him or his cabinet to have some sort of "obsession with Bin Laden" (to quote a description of Clinton); that'd be moronic to expect that sort of precognizance.
HB wrote:
Economies don't just go up or down, the causes of any economic shift goes back years, if not decades.

And are also affected by current events. Leakages and injections affect GDP quite a bit on an annual basis, I'd think. Again, to say there is a case, not that said case is 100% true.

HB wrote:
Quote:
- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

Which is to say, we wern't TRILLIONS (that a lot of fucking zeros) in debt prior to the presidental election that brough bush into office.

We did, however, go from the first surpluses since the 60s to massive, record-busting deficits. As in, over half a trillion in one year (that's a lot of fucking zeros).

HB wrote:
Quote:
- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

Okay, so we've established that his cabinet have no need for kickbacks. Fair enough. The most uncorruptable person is the person who already has everything they want, so there is nothing to bribe them with.

That's just ignorant, of both you. Ignorant of basic economics (you know, with the "unlimited wants" things) for you, and ignorant of resume-man because they had that oil tanker quietly renamed after Condi got appointed.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:16 am 
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Abunai! wrote:
Quote:
The WTC attack could have happened to anyone, it was bad timing.

I would hope that the NSA, CIA, FBI, et cetera, do something. Which is to say, yes, he could have made a difference, and it's not just "bad timing." Though I'm certainly not saying I expect him or his cabinet to have some sort of "obsession with Bin Laden" (to quote a description of Clinton); that'd be moronic to expect that sort of precognizance.

Prior to 9/11, the american public would not have willingly accepted the sort of inconveniences the level of security necessary to prevent the attacks would have required. Even if they did, without that disaster as an example, complacency would set in. The opportunity to conduct that type of attack would present itself again. It's extremely unlikely to happen again, even if terrorists managed to take control of several airliners, because the passenger no longer expect to survive in the event of a hijaking. Prior to 9/11, passengers expected to be held hostage as a bargaining item, and would quietly wait for whatever sort of rescue or release agreement emergency services could pull off. Now those same passengers (at least a significant minority) will risk their own lives to fight hijakers in the expectation that they will die in any event if the hijakers are successful.

Abunai! wrote:
HB wrote:
Economies don't just go up or down, the causes of any economic shift goes back years, if not decades.

And are also affected by current events. Leakages and injections affect GDP quite a bit on an annual basis, I'd think. Again, to say there is a case, not that said case is 100% true.

The economy peaked in March of 2000, 8 months before the presidential elections, after a brief rally around September/October 2000 the market continued its downward trend. The investor panic following September 11th 2001 didn't help either.

Abunai! wrote:
HB wrote:
Quote:
- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

Which is to say, we wern't TRILLIONS (that a lot of fucking zeros) in debt prior to the presidental election that brough bush into office.

We did, however, go from the first surpluses since the 60s to massive, record-busting deficits. As in, over half a trillion in one year (that's a lot of fucking zeros).

Of course, none of that money was spent on disaster relief, increased security at airports, nuclear power plants, and other "High Payoff Targets", or the tax rebate. . .

Abunai! wrote:
HB wrote:
Quote:
- I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

Okay, so we've established that his cabinet have no need for kickbacks. Fair enough. The most uncorruptable person is the person who already has everything they want, so there is nothing to bribe them with.

That's just ignorant, of both you. Ignorant of basic economics (you know, with the "unlimited wants" things) for you, and ignorant of resume-man because they had that oil tanker quietly renamed after Condi got appointed.

No arguement, just want to note that no president has ever appointed someone living below the poverty line to a cabinet position. Most cabinet appointees are either career politicians or lobbyists, neither of which are known for being less than economically comfortable. And, to be honest, would you want a Secretary of the Treasury who couldn't manage his or her own personal finances? The only position i can even conceive of wealth being a disqualifier for is Labor Secretary, who could reasonably be expected to have held a "blue collar" job for at least a couple of years.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:47 pm 
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Emy wrote:
Prior to 9/11, the american public would not have willingly accepted the sort of inconveniences the level of security necessary to prevent the attacks would have required. Even if they did, without that disaster as an example, complacency would set in. The opportunity to conduct that type of attack would present itself again. It's extremely unlikely to happen again, even if terrorists managed to take control of several airliners, because the passenger no longer expect to survive in the event of a hijaking. Prior to 9/11, passengers expected to be held hostage as a bargaining item, and would quietly wait for whatever sort of rescue or release agreement emergency services could pull off. Now those same passengers (at least a significant minority) will risk their own lives to fight hijakers in the expectation that they will die in any event if the hijakers are successful.

I never saw a second WTC bombing. Did you?

For that matter, how did Condeleeza et al. respond to what they were told, prior to the attacks?

From my limited perspective (i.e. I don't have the access to "sensitive information" that may or may not be actually sensitive, judging from previous censors), I simply must say that there seem to have been things that could have been done that would not inconvenience to the point of not getting (re?)elected/appointed.

Quote:
The economy peaked in March of 2000, 8 months before the presidential elections, after a brief rally around September/October 2000 the market continued its downward trend. The investor panic following September 11th 2001 didn't help either.

So it did. Do you feel the business cycle was as flattened as it should have been by the supply-side economics of Mr Bush?

Quote:
Of course, none of that money was spent on disaster relief, increased security at airports, nuclear power plants, and other "High Payoff Targets", or the tax rebate. . .

I understand your point. Speaking of the tax cuts...do you consider it fiscally responsible to offer tax-cuts at a time when spending must to be increased and the American public is feeling less taxed than it has in years? I mean, they were record deficits from surpluses. Even among the wartime presidents, or Hoover, I'm not sure you'd find anyone who could match that. Point one out, though, if I've missed him.

Quote:
No argument, just want to note that no president has ever appointed someone living below the poverty line to a cabinet position. Most cabinet appointees are either career politicians or lobbyists, neither of which are known for being less than economically comfortable. And, to be honest, would you want a Secretary of the Treasury who couldn't manage his or her own personal finances? The only position i can even conceive of wealth being a disqualifier for is Labor Secretary, who could reasonably be expected to have held a "blue collar" job for at least a couple of years.

I would like to state that, unlike many market capitalists, I do not feel lack of wealth is necessarily a sign of personal <s>impiety</s> incompetence.

Aside from that, though, I concur. It admittedly worries me when appointees don't seem to be qualified for his or her job, for one reason or another (e.g. having argued against the existence of his job).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:37 am 
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Being surrounded by republicans, i get to see a lot of right-wing propagandist material. And so, since this is the only place on the forums where it's appropriate, i make you all share my pain.
Mathew Manweller, Central Washington University political science professor... wrote:
"Election determines fate of nation"

In that this will be my last column before the presidential election,
there will be no sarcasm, no attempts at witty repartee. The topic is
too serious, and the stakes are too high.

This November we will vote in the only election during our lifetime that
will truly matter. Because America is at a once-in-a-generation
crossroads, more than an election hangs in the balance. Down one path
lies retreat, abdication and a reign of ambivalence. Down the other lies
a nation that is aware of its past and accepts the daunting obligation
its future demands.

If we choose poorly, the consequences will echo through the next 50
years of history. If we, in a spasm of frustration, turn out the current
occupant of the White House, the message to the world and ourselves will
be two-fold.

First, we will reject the notion that America can do big things.

Once a nation that tamed a frontier, stood down the Nazis and stood upon
the moon, we will announce to the world that bringing democracy to the
Middle East is too big of a task for us. But more significantly, we will
signal to future presidents that as voters, we are unwilling to tackle
difficult challenges, preferring caution to boldness, embracing the
mediocrity that has characterized other civilizations. The defeat of
President Bush will send a chilling message to future presidents who may
need to make difficult, yet unpopular decisions. America has always been
a nation that rises to the demands of history regardless of the costs or
appeal. If we turn away from that legacy, we turn away from who we are.

Second, we inform every terrorist organization on the globe that the
lesson of Somalia was well learned. In Somalia we showed terrorists that
you don't need to defeat America on the battlefield when you can defeat
them in the newsroom. They learned that a wounded America can become a defeated America.

Twenty-four-hour news stations and daily tracing polls will do the heavy
lifting, turning a cut into a fatal blow. Except that Iraq is Somalia
times 10. The election of John Kerry will serve notice to every
terrorist in every cave that the soft underbelly of American power is
the timidity of American voters. Terrorists will know that a steady
stream of grizzly photos for CNN is all you need to break the will of
the American people. Our own self-doubt will take it from there. Bin
Laden will recognize that he can topple any American administration
without setting foot on the homeland.

It is said that America's W.W.II generation is its 'greatest
generation'. But my greatest fear is that it will become known as
America's 'last generation.' Born in the bleakness of the Great
Depression and hardened in the fire of WW II, they may be the last
American generation that understands the meaning of duty, honor and
sacrifice. It is difficult to admit, but I know these terms are spoken
with only hollow detachment by many (but not all) in my generation. Too
many citizens today mistake 'living in America' as 'being an American.'
But America has always been more of an idea than a place. When you sign on, you do more than buy real estate. You accept a set of values and
responsibilities.

This November, my generation, which has been absent too long, must grasp the obligation that comes with being an American, or fade into the
oblivion they may deserve.

I believe that 100 years from now historians will look back at the
election of 2004 and see it as the decisive election of our century.
Depending on the outcome, they will describe it as the moment America
joined the ranks of ordinary nations; or they will describe it as the
moment the prodigal sons and daughters of the greatest generation
accepted their burden as caretakers of the City on the Hill.

I don't really agree, but it's a pretty compelling peice of propaganda. I consider it pertinent that the writer is a political science professor, though i'm not sure if it lends credence to his arguement (under the assumption that it's his job to be more informed than the rest of us) or if it calls into question his qualifications for teaching, as it is very much a biased arguement which one is inclined to assume reflects his personal beliefs.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:18 am 
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Mathew Manweller, Central Washington University political science professor... wrote:
Once a nation that tamed a frontier

Good thing he isn't a history professor.

Not exactly a compelling piece, I'd say. He didn't really say anything other than "The moon will fall down on the Earth if Kerry is elected!" Not a single bit of evidence did he cite. I could easily do that without a degree.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:50 am 
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Herbal Enema wrote:

The WTC attack could have happened to anyone, it was bad timing.
Economies don't just go up or down, the causes of any economic shift goes back years, if not decades.

Not really. Clinton and Gore had plans to capture Bin Laden. Not to mention, a lot of other people tha could have been president could have taken the time to read the report Bush was sent mentioning the attack.

Quote:
And "First president to enter with a criminal record?" The only criminal thing in that post was a drunk driving charge. Nothing else. Whoop-di-FUCKING-do! Give me a felony, or sod off!

He wouldn't be president if he had a felony. The fact that he is the first with a misdemeanor means something about the integrity we previously expected of presidents.


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Graduated Yale with a low-C. At least he graduated, and who the fuck cares what his extra-curricular activities were? How many of you that have gone to college even had an extra-curriculars in college?

At least he graduated? The president is the most powerful person in the country, I would like to have someone with ability. It's pretty easy to just swear and appear indignant, it's another to actually give a reason why it's ok to be a low-C student.

Quote:
I like this one the best...
Quote:
- I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

Which is to say, we wern't TRILLIONS (that a lot of fucking zeros) in debt prior to the presidental election that brough bush into office.

We were in a surplus, one that others would have used to fight the debt. Consider, if we rolled up our sleeves, agreed to pay taxes now instead of stiffing our futures and our childrens futures, we could accomplish a lot. Bringing down the debt would mean no more paying interest on it, which means we could afford to offer tax cuts to everyone in the future, not just a short squandering that benefits only the now.

Quote:
Okay, so we've established that his cabinet have no need for kickbacks. Fair enough. The most uncorruptable person is the person who already has everything they want, so there is nothing to bribe them with.

Then how come the common saying is power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely? By your standard, someone with absolute power would be uncorruptable.

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Any qualifications here? Misdemeners? Felonies? What? I doubt there many people out there who have not even had a traffic ticket. Technically speaking, the traffic rules are laws, and breaking a law makes you a criminal, and getting caught makes you a convicted criminal. So getting a traffic ticket (that's not overturned) makes you into a convicted criminal.
"You know, Bob, your company is the best one for the job, but I see you got a speeding ticket 14 years ago, so I'm afraid I can't award this government contract to you. Sorry."

I don't know about that bill in particular, but most moving violations are not criminal. They are called civil infractions. You are a criminal if you are guilty of violating criminal law, not civil law. It's the largest error in your problem, but based on your constant use of british slang, I'll just assume you are ignornat of the American legal system and definitions.


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