ZOMBIE FORUMS

This was brought to my attention by a friend on lj.

Yeah okay .. so lj, another draft farce.

And then you note This and This and things start becoming alarming. Granted, they have only been introduced and still have a few loops to manuever ... but if this goes down ...

Universal National Service Act of 2003

National draft of those (male AND female) between the ages of 18-26. This will include a two year period of service (as determined by Sir Bush). And this time all you runners won't find refuge in either Canada or college.

Discuss.

I just want to note a few highlights from the article

drafted/conscripted armies are not usually very good armies.

It is very unlikely to pass. According to my sources, it was introduced mainly as a political ploy (by a democrat) to make Bush look bad, and it won't really ever get passed committee.

Given, however, that if it does pass I'm volunteering before my ticket comes up. I don't want to be on the line with a bunch of filthy conscripts.

Edit: Let me expand a bit on what Ollie said.

Conscripted armies are CRAP. It cannot be understated how crap conscripts are. Military folk hate conscripts with all their being, and no one in the pentagon will seriously consider a draft unless we're in a major war and had no way of winning otherwise (in which case I think the American people would probably be volunteering anyway, not likeing the bad guys winning and all.)

Anyway, the Pentagon didn't ask for this, because we're not taking casualties that require the draft. We don't even need the manpower: US Army + reserves is somewhere around 1.4 million people. What we are short on in material, which is what precludes going off on another adventure before Iraq is secured. Tossing more people at the problem is what China does, not the USA.

It is interesting to note that, iirc, this measure was started by an anti-bush, anti-Iraq-II democrat. This jives with the vibes I'm getting off of every military guy I know, who says the Pentagon doesn't want/need more people, and the country isn't equipped to keep them armed and going (not even equipped to keep the ones we have armed and going, in fact: the war in Iraq has drained much of the material we have, locally, and it'll take years to replace it all.)

So the only way this thing makes any sense is a political ploy.

So yeah, Darkie, you're an idiot.

-MiB

Not to mention it's wrong to force someone to fight for you?

(Being all for people choosing to fight for causes.)

-Kitty

Everyone stand back, H-Kat is making moral judgements.

How is that glass house, anyway, H-Kat?

Actually, since Mibbers effectively shot me down, lets run with this.

[edit] Well .. only part of that.[/edit]

See, I don't think this will pass because a great deal of people, IE senators and represenatives, will lose their job come election time.

Good thing all the dodgers can't get up here. We have enough hippies.

Enough, Grey. Add something, or don't, but enough.

-Kitty

I wonder ... well I'm glad I learned all those years of Spanish, then. ^_^

Fuck!!

I add this: Your an asshole <3

Fixed. If you're going to spread the hat, at least be correct about it. We don't want people thinking you're a total retard, do we?

I don't think it's likely to pass, unless we were REALLY screwed. Usually, if Congress if faced with a decision that has controversy on both sides, it won't make it. This is one case in which that's actually a good thing.

It's mostly been said before, and in some freakish twist of common sense, i'm going to agree with mibbers, not about whether the bill will pass or not, but that it's a dumb idea.

As MiB said, conscripted armies are crap. I don't have figure or such , but simple logic will give you the answer.

A good soldier is someone who wants to be a soldier, has trained hard, and strived for the right to fight for his/her country. A good soldier is intelligent, knows the spphisticated wartools, and has trained themselves physically and mentally for the threat of war.

A bad soldier is someone with only minimal training, in fitness, equipment, and tactics. In today's tech-driven wars against terrorists, fanatics, and geurilla-style combat, a person whose only goal is to survive for two years so they can go home isn't a good soldier, as MiB said, or implied, they're a danger to the real soldiers.

More bodies is clearly what's not needed, what's needed is a smarter, better war machine, not a fatter one.

As to whether or not the Draft is a moral issue...well, what's the penalty for not going? does it onclude a loss of income? CAN you out-right refuse? or do they just drop you on some beach in the middle of a wearzone whether you like it or not? All i have for refernce is war movies, so i'm not treating a single word of it for fact.

Fact only comes from PowerPuff Girls.

Thanks Wark.



omg lolz. I teh agree.



Jail time or being rounded up and forced into the army, iirc (depending on how cooperative you are.) Its not like they mind if you don't want to be in there in the first place. Thats just info I dug up from memory from talking to a draft dodger from the vietnam war.



Well to claim that you really need to go deeper than how you have, I mean its nice to share your views and all, but you need a real argument instead of just an opinion etc, otherwise nobody can argue with you because you havn't really said anything to be rebutted.

-MiB

Wooh! I can't be drafted!

Go Two-Eyes-That-Are-Only-Really-One-At-Any-Given-Time Attack!

Until a few years ago, it was possible to declare conscientious objector status on your selective service card if you were morally opposed to war in all forms, for example a member of the Quakers or Mennonites. As it was explained to me, this isn't an automatic pass. Instead, when your number is pulled, it starts a process by which you are offered a chance to provide a statement of your beliefs and evidence that these beliefs are strongly held. (Actually, I think you can apply for CO status any time during military service, but putting it on your service card lets them know up front)

Anyway, the process provides a series of questions about your objections, stength of belief and willingness to serve in a non-combat position. Your objection must be moral in nature, e.g. "a firm, fixed and sincere objection to participation in war in any form or the bearing of arms, by reason of religious training and belief." Objections based "solely upon considerations of policy, pragmatism, expediency, or political views" don't count.

If the draft board denies your request for CO status, I believe your only other option is federal prison.

The SS cards no longer have the CO check box, so you have to write "I am a conscientious objector" in marker on the card. As there hasn't been a draft since this was changed, it's not clear if/how this statement will be honored.

In retrospect, I guess I kinda just elaborated on what Kry had already said. My mistake.