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 Post subject: Best Carry Gun For those not of the 1911 persuasion
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:36 pm 
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I want to hear want everybody has to say about carry guns that were not designed solely by John Browning. (No 1911 style pistols). There is a place for mindless worship of the mighty 1911, but this debate is for the HK, Glock, Sig, Berreta, Smith and Wesson, Styer, Walther, etcetera fans out there. Any automatic or revolver is fair game provided you can back up the cartridge and mechanical design. That being said I will commence the debate...

My personal favorite is the HK P7M8. The M8 pistol is dead reliable with all types of 9mm amunition, has a sweet trigger right out the box, and its so mechanically safe that if I were to drop it off a cliff I wouldn't have to worry about it going off. So there, I said it. I like a 9mm. Provided I run quality ammunition through it (Magsafe comes to mind), I think it is almost the perfect side arm. Let the sidearm bash begin...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:56 pm 
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I like the Mateba .357 autorevolver.

I'm also a fan of Walthers. P-38 and P-99 especially.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:44 pm 
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The Glock (21? 19? I forget) that loads .45.

A MAN's caliber.

-MiB

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:17 am 
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In a couple months, I'ma go tro the horrendous application for a gun licence.

Turns out revolvers are still legal in aussilanderzien, or so its looks. An aussie gun joint was selling on the web the mighty .357 Magnum. Omg want so bad

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$1000 :P

Bleh, Ima getting the good old .303 Mk4 SMLE once I get my licence. $140. Not a bad price for a weapon that will kill a man 2 clicks away.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:40 pm 
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It seems you want an autoloader, so I should put away my double action revolvers. Shame.

OK, I have formed some love for the Taurus 945B, it is a fine double/single action select, the only one I know of. 8+1 Mag, All Taurus guns come with a lifetime warranty. Compact frame while still full size, comfortable, powerful, accounted to be reliable.

If I was in the field, I would take nothing other than the unstoppable Glock. Would take the model 22 (40 S&W) though I like the .45 ACP more than any auto cartridge, the model 21 (and, sadly 20) are far too builky in even my large hands. The .40 S&W honestly produces stopping power so close to the .45 ACP as to make too little difference to be upset about. In adition you get 17 rounds in pre-ban, rather than 13. Glocks are not my favorites, but they are unstoppable and get the job done. I'd take one for anything but in-city concealed carry against dangerous two-legged game. The .357 SIG is interesting, and likely as good as advertised, but the ammo companies that carry the proprietary cartridge are unreasonable about offering cheap ammo, unlike the .40.

(if walking in bear country I'll take a revolver with a heavy magnum load .454, .480, or more)

BTW, the Springfield Armory XD polymer frame pistol is going to be offered in .45 GAP, (the XD is striker fired non 1911 pistol) the .45 Gap looks like a .45 ACP short, 9mm length, since it is loaded to modern pressures (35k PSI+) it equals .45 ACP performance, this bears watching.

Glock invented the cartridge, but the model 37 really fails to take advantage of the cartridge, the XD does not.

Finally, some

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:23 pm 
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Non-1911? Damn, that just cut out my main choice right there.

Hm, okay then, H&K USP .45 Tactical. Not the big gay Mk. 23 SOCOM mind you. Someday when I'm legal for one, I might buy one. Maybe.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:19 pm 
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I decided to add a post on DA revolvers anyway.

First, there is, as you know little to improve about the Colt Python. Accuracy, trigger pull, combination of light weight and a mild cartridge by my standards.

I am suddenly interested in the Ruger Redhawk (as distinguished from its big retarded football player of a cousin the Super Redhawk). It is offered in .44 Magnum, and also in .45 Colt approved for +P loads.

Taurus has a tracker in .45 Colt/.45 ACP. With a 4" barrel, It could be a CCW, with a 6" it would just be fun as hell.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:40 pm 
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Walther P99. kthxbai


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:15 pm 
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I am rather partial to the .357 magnum.
I have a hard to find Automag, chambered for the .357. It was not as popular as the Automag in .44 Mag (made popular by one Inspector Harry Calahan in the one of his later movies). It is a bit easier to holster and carry in comparison to the .44 mag version.
My other .357 is a wheel gun, a Colt Trooper Mark III (I have a mark IV, but it just sits in the nightstand, just in case, so it kinda doesn't count here). The Mark III is magna-ported, and has custom grips to fit my hands, and I had a nice quick draw convertable hoster made for it (converts to a shoulder harness).
The .357 has perfect knockdown power. When loaded with semi-wadcutter slugs, can knock over a 270 lbs dummy (one made for ballistic testing) almost every shot form 50 ft away. It is one of the few rounds outside of the Russian 12 mm pistol round that can penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear. The .454 casul round could not even enter the griz skull.
As I often find myself in grizzly bear areas, and have had a few previous face offs with the buggers (major butt-pucker factor there), I want a pistol that can give me a chance if said bruin decides he wants to try and eat me for lunch.
For just quick fire support, give me a simple glock, with extra mags. The glocks can maintain a higher amount of continous and sustained firing than other pistols, without melting down or having a component break. Shame we cannot say the same about the ammo itself. So many manufacturers, not enough consistency, especially the russian remanufactured ammo (mil surplus that is de-powdered and reloaded with non-military powder). The glock is a great platform to spray 9mm slugs about just for the effect of lots of rounds.
The ultimate pistol is the Russian made 12mm. Mine is currently in hiding to evade sale or seizure (FUCK YOU IRS> YOU FUCKING BASTARDS!!!!).
Anyway, the 12 mm can put a hole the diameter of an average dildo completely through a telephone pole (and yes, I did shoot the pole myself, but am guessing on the diameter of a dildo). It is without a doubt, a two handed weapon, and not meant to fire more than a clip or two before geting both the weapon and the user overworked. The Tokarev folk made them custom for Soviet Army Officers, who were in turn related to Party Officials.
I obtained mine from a Russian defector (there were several actually, and this is where I also obtained my Aks and the Dragunov), seeking asylum in the west, as payment for getting them into West Germany. The officer is in fact now living in Texas, and is a good friend of mine, and is attending my family reunion next week with my parents.
But, i digress, and must now go, as a truck with a few tons of topsoil is sitting out front waiting to dump on my lawn. Oh the joys of having a home and having to do all the frikin' upkeep! On the plus side I now ave a 60 ft long patio that I can have great BBQs and just general beer drinkin evenings on.
Edit:
Its Winchester gun show weekend, I do not have to go to the field for a while, I have money the IRS cannot touch, and a real gunpower chubby.
Later........................................................... I am off to buy sell and trade guns...yummy!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:07 am 
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Maybe if I'm good, my immediate superiors will turn a blind eye if I try to acquire a few things if we ever deploy. I need to look up the bringback laws, because Dragunovs are legal as far as the assault weapons ban goes, I'm just not sure about if I'd need to install US components or not, etc.
I've only seen a Dragunov at the Infantry museum thusfar, curses. . .

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"My relationship with my SAW[M249 Squad Automatic Weapon] has lasted longer than my marriage did." -One of the guys in my platoon.


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 Post subject: Smuggling for personal enjoyment.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:39 am 
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The bringback laws basically preclude you from returning anything legally. We were prevented from bringing back knives and such that we had actually purchased while in Honduras and Panama. I returned my russian weapons inside the panels of a M109 van (wrapped in plastic and sealed in with expanding spray foam to cushion and quiet the whole thing). What they didn't know about, they could not prevent or be hurt by. It comes down to smuggling. Just set it up so it next to impossible for anyone to prove your involvement. Also do it in such a manner as it would be impossible to detect the item without a complete disassembly of the location of the item is smuggled in.
Makarov pistols (only the 9mm ones anyway) bring a decent price if you can get them back here from a deployment.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:41 am 
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gone are the good ol' days of WWII....

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:50 pm 
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Clay_Allison wrote:
gone are the good ol' days of WWII....


yes...so true :cry:

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 Post subject: well, if not a 1911 then...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:02 pm 
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Well, I would go with a Five Seven, if they weren't illegal for the public.
uses the same ammo from the P-90, well its the partner of the P-90.
I think it holds 22 rounds of 223 or 222, I can't remember off hand.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 1:06 pm 
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Holds 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm, and from what I've read, they have been available to the general public lately, just with 10-round mags instead of 20's. However, from what I've read, the ammunition is terribly expensive. Also, it's made solely to penetrate body armor, so I doubt if it has much stopping power, etc.

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"My relationship with my SAW[M249 Squad Automatic Weapon] has lasted longer than my marriage did." -One of the guys in my platoon.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:24 pm 
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worshiptheSock wrote:
Well, I would go with a Five Seven, if they weren't illegal for the public.
uses the same ammo from the P-90, well its the partner of the P-90.
I think it holds 22 rounds of 223 or 222, I can't remember off hand.


Frank!? Is that you?

To address your question, for the results I'd want, I would shorten .223 Brass all the way back to 27MM, neck it back down to .22 but with a 40 degree shoulder. With good load development you should approach the performance of the .221 Remington fireball. Pick your bullet and it would be good medicine at conversational range. Problem is that with any hot .22 you will get poor performance without a long barrel. While I would like your project, for hunting Jackrabbits, I can't see a self defense handgun with a 10-inch barrel, nor could I see a hot .22 living up to potential without it.

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We used to play for silver, Now we play for life.
One's for sport and one's for blood
At the point of a knife, Now the die is shaken
Now the die must fall,
There ain't a winner in this game
Who don't go home with all, Not with all...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:35 pm 
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You could also do what my friend did to get his AK-47 back to the US: ship it home one piece at a time. He had all his friends in his platoon take a piece home with them as "souvenirs", which they allowed since they were only pieces of an AK and not the actual weapon. When they all got home from deployment, they each mailed their piece to him. He assembled the parts, bought replacements for the wood furniture he left behind, and voila, a mostly original AK-47 sitting in his closet.

He also knew a guy who smuggled home captured weapons in vehicles and equipment that was being sent back to the US. Friends at various locations removed the weapons from their hiding places once in the US and arranged for them to be delivered to their owners once they got back from the Middle East. Guy quit doing such favors though, figuring that he'd get caught sooner and later and that he'd better quit while he was ahead.

Another, even simpler solution to the problem of not being allowed to bring back captured weapons: ship them through the local commercial mail. It'll be expensive and take forever to get to its destination, but I seriously doubt that the US army is inspecting all those packages for guns that G.I.'s took while overseas.

Somewhere my grandfather has an old SS knife. He traded a couple records and a spare pair of boots for it. He got lucky and got deployed to Germany AFTER the European war was over, so he had stuff the other guys were desperate for by the time he arrived.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:03 pm 
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The Lemat....nothing says power like having a pistol...8 rounds...and a 20-gauge shotgun in the middle


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:03 pm 
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I have never heard of this gun. What style of weapon is it? I've seen a pepperbox-style pistol that shot four .22 LR rounds and one 9mm, but that was a generic zipgun.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 11:21 pm 
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I myself am a fan of long arms, especially of European descent, but that's not what this is about. Honestly I really like the looks and performance of the Mauser C96, it was chambered for the Mauser 7.63 mm. which was, till the .357 Magnum, the world's highest velocity pistol cartridge. I digress, the C96 is old, but the action is strong, and it is still potent. It also had a higher capacity (for it's time) with a 10 round fixed box magazine in front of the trigger; only downer was it needs strip clips, but a little fabrication you can make them. Spain and China, both made versions in 9mm. and 45 mm. also there are many different variations.

As far as double action revolvers go, a British Webley Mk. IV, there's just something about basically a .45 ACP break open revolver.

If you're wondering in Star Wars, Han Solo used a Mauser C96 retooled, and in the original Indiana Jones novels, Indy uses a .455 Webley MK. IV.


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