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 Post subject: How far is too far?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:51 am 
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Unless you've been living under a rock since Charles Darwin walked this earth, you're no doubt familiar with the current debates about seperation of church and state and religion in general, among other things.

As of late, evangelical christians have been increasing their presence and in most cases taken center stage. Groups like the christian coilition have squared off against groups like the ACLU over hot topics like gay marriage, public displays of religious artifacts, and prayer in schools.

I direct your attention to this interesting page.

This site contains a number of interesting and seemingly controvertial bumper stickers you can order. Some of the ones that caught my eye were "The Bible: A Grim Fairy Tale", "The Only Problem With Baptists Is They Don't Hold Them Under Long Enough", and "Atheism Cures Religious Terrorism".

I'm sure most of you are open minded, and while I don't want to exclude anyone, I'm fairly sure the majority of us here would fall on one side of this debate. So I pose the following question:

How far is too far? It's one thing to say "Stay out of my life", but it's very different to say "So Many Christians, So Few Lions". Is this a justified anger, or is it just as bad and even hypocritical to be intolerant of others for being intolerant to you?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:32 am 
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For the most part, I agree with the bumper stickers...

I've yet to find a anti-gay marriage person who can respond to this simple questionairre.

1) True or False: This nation was founded, in part, on the principle that the Government shouldn't be run by, or influenced directly by, religion.

(the answer, of course, being True).

2) What is the Civil reason why you're against Gay Marriage?

(note: use of the word 'religion' or 'it's evil' will get you smacked)

==========

As for abortion..

Until this country accepts that young people have unprotected sex, and starts educating the bastards early enough that it matters, there will be abortions. There arn't nearly enough people who will adopt, if there were no abortions, and it's just not fair to ask some poor 16-year old to take care of a child (or, more realistically and disgustingly enough, a 13-year old). So, we don't have an adoptive family, we can't count on the mother. It's not fair to ask the grandparents to take care of a kid that they didn't cause, nor adopt, so that leaves ... what? Leaving it out in the dumpster? How is that any different than abortion?

==========


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 3:38 am 
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True, but does that justify this? Let me try to extrapolate.

Many people say they don't like christians because they're intolerant. Re-read that sentence several times. Now let's pose it as a statment.

"I don't like christians (as a group) because they're intolerant (of groups, as well as individuals)."

A more fair critizism would be "I don't like some christians" or "I don't like the things some christians believe in", but the problem is that that sentiment is fading and being replaced with "Christians, in general, I hate". Noit only is it stereotyping, it's also hypocracy.

Now don't get me wrong, people have a reason to be mad, even vindictive. But sweeping critizisms, generalizations, and labeling are not the way to go, in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:08 am 
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How about "I don't like religious fundamentalists because they're morons?"

I don't give two shits about what deity you do or don't believe in. The minute you try to impose the illogical morality that descends from those beliefs on me, you're a moron.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:13 am 
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The Baron wrote:
How about "I don't like religious fundamentalists because they're morons?"

I don't give two shits about what deity you do or don't believe in. The minute you try to impose the illogical morality that descends from those beliefs on me, you're a moron.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:17 am 
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It's called Occam's Razor, dear. I don't like Christians because they're Christian--that would require too much effort. I don't like fundamentalist Christians because they're fundamentally stupid.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:35 am 
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He, I've seen some of those around town. Whoo-hoo, Jesus was a liberal!


On a more serious note, yeah, some of thoe are crap. What do you really expect us to say? I must be naturally lucky; I don't seem to encounter bible-thumpers much.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 12:58 pm 
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Living in west texas, I encounter alot of bible-thumpers.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:05 pm 
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Herbal Enema wrote:
Living in west texas, I encounter alot of bible-thumpers.


Yeah. Living in the buckle of the bible belt sucks ass.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:11 pm 
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uh, Texas is the center of the Bible Belt?

yeah, maybe you've forgotten about Alabama.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:06 pm 
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http://www.google.com/search?q=abbotsfo ... 8&oe=utf-8

125,000 people. This many churches.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 5:58 pm 
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The Baron wrote:
uh, Texas is the center of the Bible Belt?

yeah, maybe you've forgotten about Alabama.


"Pray to God or the devil will get you!" Oh yeah. Going through Alabama was an interesting experience, to say the least. Which is funny, because if you go through Georgia, the freeway is littered with strip clubs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:19 pm 
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Yeah, well, all you heathens passing through have polluted the place.




*waits for it*

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:26 pm 
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Wark wrote:
The Baron wrote:
uh, Texas is the center of the Bible Belt?

yeah, maybe you've forgotten about Alabama.


"Pray to God or the devil will get you!" Oh yeah. Going through Alabama was an interesting experience, to say the least. Which is funny, because if you go through Georgia, the freeway is littered with strip clubs.

Don't remind me. I lived in Alabama for the first 17 years of my life. And I'm 18. The scars are still fresh.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:05 pm 
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Remember kids, your rights end where someone else's begins. However, there'd be a bunch of conflicts with regards to ammendments and rights here.

So, let's just stick with the blanket of 9th and 10th ammendments, that is to say...

If it's not called illegal, it's not illegal.

Who gives a fuck about morals? Certainly not the US. If we did, there'd be a lot less Enron going on. XD

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:30 pm 
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"When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kind of Dogmas or goals, it's always because those dogmas or goals are in doubt."

Quasi-random, but I thought it bore some relevance. Those who are secure in their beliefs don't feel the need to scream them from the rooftops

In another place I used to hang out in, we called the Christians who bible-thump and try to make everyone else choke on their beliefs Christains. Inside joke based out of a typo, but it works. But I agree that there is a too far. Pagans were angry with the Church for a long time for the persecution that they had to endure. But hey, the Church has had to endure pursecution from the Pagans as well. And honestly, that was the only card the Pagans had to get away with the things they say about the Church. I'm pagan, but enough is enough. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you sink to it's level. Don't become the thing you hate.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:29 am 
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The basis of my moral beliefs is this: "Do whatever you want just as long as it doesn't negatively affect the lives of other people."

I have some things that I personally don't do because I believe that they are wrong, but I don't force other people to not do them either. My big question about homosexual marriages when they first came up was "how would it affect the children." However research has proven that it doesn't negatively affect a child (still baggering my freind to get me the research).

Ironically, I am prolife and would vote against abortion if it ever came up for a vote. But this is because I believe life begins at conception or soon after. This is a basic belief I have and I really can't defend or disprove it at all. Nor could anyone that believes the opposite in my opinion.

The biggest thing that gets me is religions that actively try to convert people. If I felt the need to change religions I will go talk to someone about it, but I doubt knocking on my door and interrupting my study time would make me change.

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