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It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 7:30 am 
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Jasper wrote:
This is counteracted by the fact that, in most civilized countries (term used as usually intended, don't nitpick me), birth rates and death rates are approaching unity.


But the earth can still support a far greater population density than it could otherwise. The difference between the with-tech population and the without-tech population is the number of people who would be dead, but for the presence of technology.


And in response to D Abyss:

How can you question the superiority of the modern day? Are we still cursed by a lower class which finds itself in such dire straights that its youth runs off to join the king's army, only to be sent to further his ambitions in foreign adventures, there to die and rot? Are we still so... oh, okay, bad example, moving on.[/political innuendo]

Take, for example, education. The institutionalizing of education has widely been considered a mistake by those who are subjeced to it, for they (at least, the lower class ones) are no longer free to hunt, swim, and frolic, as they were up until the mid (late?) nineteenth century. However, this allowed them (at least, the smart ones who had some drive) later in life to compete on a more even footing with the children of the wealthy, who were blessed with personal tutors, textbooks, and plentiful supplies of paper and ink. This institutionalizing of education was in large part due to the need to have a moderately well educated labor force to work the contraptions of the industrial revolution, with the happy side effect, as I mentioned before, of allowing some of the students (again, the smart, driven ones) to challenge their social betters. This, I think, was good for humanity.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:42 am 
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So it's about quality of life. You don't have to worry (much) about disease, starvation, or anything like that in the developed world. The huge killers of aeons past are being tamed. How much more quality do you want?

Your life feels empty? Your own fault.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:20 pm 
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:D I'm glad I started this thread. It's nice to hear good things about the world for a change. I'm not really as extremist on this topic as I've come off, but I figured I picked a side. Might as well take it up a few notches. Anyway, back to debating.

I wouldn't call "Quality of life" vague because it means how happy you are in your life while you're acutally alive. In most of the stereotypical times it's used it's when doctors are debating the issue of euthenasia. A lot of people have said things that made me smile. Reminding about how education is far better now than it ever was being one of the best. However, I ask everyone that is debating in this thread to just reflect on their life and examine how often they are honestly truly happy. Throwing aside all idealisms and thoughts towards the greater good, are any of us really happy with the lives we lead? When we go to work, do we enjoy what we're doing? When we come home and watch the telly, as Vass so quaintly put it, are we really happy with the time we're spending there? America* is number one in senseless gun shootings in the whole of the world. Look at the statistics. And why? They have everything anyone could ask for and more. They can't blame poverty (which was the best excuse I've heard) because Canada has a greater poverty level and their gun shootings aren't even a tenth of America's. America has all the gadgets, all the gizmos, all the chemical remedies and technological advances. So why are so many people in America having to take prescriptions for depression while they clutch their weapons close and lock their doors in fear of their neighbors? America should practically be the happiest nation on the planet but they're not. What's missing?

*since America is the country of my residence, so I tend to single them out the most. I'm trying to be fair, I just don't have quite as much information on other countries beyond some statistics.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:13 am 
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Darkened Abyss wrote:
I ask everyone that is debating in this thread to just reflect on their life and examine how often they are honestly truly happy. Throwing aside all idealisms and thoughts towards the greater good, are any of us really happy with the lives we lead? When we go to work, do we enjoy what we're doing? When we come home and watch the telly, as Vass so quaintly put it, are we really happy with the time we're spending there?

If we all were to become happy with our lives, however, change and growth would cease. I'm not advocating that we should change just for the sake of change, but if we aren't happy with the current status quo then we *should* change it. Change society, technology, whatever.

There's no point not changing, and there's little point in going back to where we came because we changed *from* that. However if you find that you are content and happy with the way things are, you can always try do as the Amish have done.


Last edited by Vass on Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:34 am 
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DA, I'm going to share a bit of insight with you.

People are fundamentally stupid. They often do fundamentally stupid things. Entertainment tells us that it's possible for everyone to be happy and fulfilled, which isn't really true. There will always be people who are unhappy, there will always be people who would rather die, there will always be people who kill other people. This is the way of the human race. It has been for millennia; why would it be any different now?

Technology can't really fix what's wrong with you mentally.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:28 am 
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Vass wrote:
If we all were to become happy with our lives, however, change and growth would cease. I'm not advocating that we should change just for the sake of change, but if we aren't happy with the current status quo then we *should* change it. Change society, technology, whatever.


But if we were perfectly happy, then, from our perspective, the world would be perfect and in need of no modification. The only change possible would be change for change's sake.


The Baron wrote:
Technology can't really fix what's wrong with you mentally.


Haven't you seen The Manchurian Candidate? Mwuahahahahah!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 4:56 pm 
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The Baron wrote:
DA, I'm going to share a bit of insight with you.

People are fundamentally stupid. They often do fundamentally stupid things. Entertainment tells us that it's possible for everyone to be happy and fulfilled, which isn't really true. There will always be people who are unhappy, there will always be people who would rather die, there will always be people who kill other people. This is the way of the human race. It has been for millennia; why would it be any different now?

Technology can't really fix what's wrong with you mentally.


Despite that i've been saying that for years, don't you think that's a pretty bleak outlook on life? I mean it's one thing to angst away "people are stupid, life sucks, nothing good ever happens so why should i even care?", but what's wrong with holding a little hope for the world?

I'm not asking for the impossible here people. I'm not pulling a Miss America and saying "i'd like world peace, hunger to end, and for everyone to be happy!"

What i'm asking is as simple as why does the majority of people have to be so messed up? Why does our society seem to be so sick? There's a big difference between "there will always be people who are unhappy" and most people being unhappy.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:49 pm 
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They're not messed up, they are sheep and think they're messed up. See previous comment on fear and buying things. Perception, in this case, is everything.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:50 am 
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The Baron wrote:
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:32 am 
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Congrats to Squeejee for pointing out the obvious.


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