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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:12 am 
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actor_au wrote:
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Actor.


<3

Now...
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:12 pm 
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I don't know about you guys, but here the concensus is that God is the symplified personification of perfection. Now, a totaly perfect thing can't have neads, and therefore no 'wants'. He can't have anything negative. If you agree with the logic 'till here (debatable) you would agree that this kind of God won't create anything. You create because of a reason, and reasons are derived from the needs that God does not posses.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:32 pm 
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Gazing Rabbit wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but here the concensus is that God is the symplified personification of perfection.


Can perfection exist in a comphrehensible form?
It would be illogical. So anything can be said about a perfect God.

Which is why there need be flaws in anything that exists, because then there would be some basis of which to debate!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:43 pm 
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And then again, if we are talking about a perfect being... who are we to second guess it?

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Chaos_Descending wrote:
And then again, if we are talking about a perfect being... who are we to second guess it?


That's what they want you to think. But history taught me to question everything!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:44 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
And then again, if we are talking about a perfect being... who are we to second guess it?

Since we're the ones defining what perfect is... I guess we're it's creators. So we can second guess the bitch all we want.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:56 pm 
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Ezelek wrote:
Chaos_Descending wrote:
And then again, if we are talking about a perfect being... who are we to second guess it?

Since we're the ones defining what perfect is... I guess we're it's creators. So we can second guess the bitch all we want.


THE SATANIC BIBLE - FEEEAR wrote:
God can do all the things man is forbidden to do - such as kill people, preform miracles to gratify his will, control without any apparent responsibility, etc. If man needs such a god and recognizes that god, then he is worshiping an entity that a human being invented. Therefore, HE IS WORSHIPPING BY PROXY THE MAN THAT INVENTED GOD. Is it not more sensible to worship a god that he, himself, has created, in accordance with his own emotional needs - one that best represents the very carnal and physical being that has the idea-power to invent a god <i>in the first place?</i>

If man insistes on externalizing his true self in the form of "God," then why fear his true self, in fearing "God," - why praise his true self in praising "God," - why remain externalized from "God" IN ORDER TO ENGAGE IN RITUAL AND RELIGIOUS CEREMONY IN HIS NAME?

Man needs ritual and dogma, but no law states that an <i>externalized</i> god is necessary in order to engage in ritual and veremony preformed in a god's name! Could it be that when he closes the gap between himself and his "God" he sees the demon of pride creeping forth - that very embodiment of Lucifer appearing in his midst? He no longer can view himself in two parts, the carnal and the spiritual, but sees them merge as one, and then to his abysmal horror, discovers that they are only the carnal - AND ALWAYS WERE! Then he either hates himself to death, day by day - or rejoices that his is what he is!


Sorry, Ezzy. But what you said just reminded me of this quote. Not that I support the quote/think it's right/etc. But I figure I'd post it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:50 pm 
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I define God as the most imperfect being imaginable.


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Aw, Icy thinks I'm God? Well, I'm flattered.

Ohshi.....

Why imprefect Icy? So Ve would have reason to create us?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:11 pm 
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Imperfect. From the Latin, imperfectus, meaning unfinished.

We generally have this pseudo-Platonic idea of God as some sort of timeless ideal. This stems from the Western practice (since Parmenides) of glorifying timelessness, permanence, and wholeness. However, the universe itself is none of these things, and creativity, life, and almost everything good ultimately derives from incompleteness and change. Hence, the force behind the universe, which must be profoundly creative, must be profoundly imperfect.

Perfection is ultimately death, and imperfection is ultimately life.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:14 pm 
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So, by being the MOST imperfect being, God would be perfectly imperfect?

... huh.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:20 pm 
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I make an interesting note that in my own faith we say "We are spiritual Beinf having a physical experience..."

The spirit being the perfect essance of ourselves...
and Humans being imperfect...
that works for me...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:13 am 
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Here's dome interesting thoughts I had regarding the topic.
Let's say for debate's sake that God exist. Should we worship it?
Or from another point of view: Could it be that by worshiping God, we create it? Could God literaly be what we think him to be?

And here's my real contribution to the debate:
If we think God to be metaphysical, then technicaly he *does* exist as a metaphysical concept. If you believe in God, than there is a manifastation of that belife called God. The manifastation will be at the same level/plane of your beliefs, so if you were to turn the thoughts containing God into 'hard' reality's energy, you'll have God in our space/time continuum, no?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 9:49 am 
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Gazing Rabbit wrote:
And here's my real contribution to the debate:
If we think God to be metaphysical, then technicaly he *does* exist as a metaphysical concept. If you believe in God, than there is a manifastation of that belife called God. The manifastation will be at the same level/plane of your beliefs, so if you were to turn the thoughts containing God into 'hard' reality's energy, you'll have God in our space/time continuum, no?


Though I have little to contribute since I'm one of those people that do not care if God exists or not, this had to be done.
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Though this may not be the exact words you used, I believe that the general idea still works. However, if such a manifestation could be created in "hard reality", would it truly be God? I think it would only be one being's perception of God rather than the actual deity.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:31 am 
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wolf346 wrote:
Though this may not be the exact words you used, I believe that the general idea still works. However, if such a manifestation could be created in "hard reality", would it truly be God? I think it would only be one being's perception of God rather than the actual deity.

Then what is the 'actual deity'? The concensus? Screw it. If this deity exists, than it exists as an independent being regardless of other beings.
The existance I speak of won't be a universal God. A spirit, guardian angel or a familiar is my idea.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 10:43 am 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
(img)http://irev.net/dragonglyph/mhapplied%20theology.jpg(/img)


wolf364 wrote:
(img)http://irev.net/dragonglyph/mhapplied%20theology.jpg(/img)


Looks like we're thinking along the same lines, buddy!

Gazing Rabbit wrote:
If we think God to be metaphysical, then technicaly he *does* exist as a metaphysical concept. If you believe in God, than there is a manifastation of that belife called God. The manifastation will be at the same level/plane of your beliefs[.]


http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/metaphysical wrote:
Meaning of METAPHYSICAL
Pronunciation: `metu'fizikul

WordNet Dictionary

Definition:
[adj] highly abstract and over-theoretical; "metaphysical reasoning"
[adj] without material form or substance; "metaphysical forces"
[adj] <b>pertaining to or of the nature of metaphysics; "metaphysical philosophy"</b>


http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/metaphysics wrote:
Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \Met`a*phys"ics\, n. [Gr. ? ? ? after those things
which relate to external nature, after physics, fr. ? beyond,
after + ? relating to external nature, natural, physical, fr.
? nature: cf. F. m['e]taphysique. See {Physics}. The term was
first used by the followers of Aristotle as a name for that
part of his writings which came after, or followed, the part
which treated of physics.]

1. The science of real as distinguished from phenomenal
being; ontology; also, the science of being, with
reference to its abstract and universal conditions, as
distinguished from the science of determined or concrete
being; <b>the science of the conceptions and relations which
are necessarily implied as true of every kind of being</b>;
phylosophy in general; first principles, or the science of
first principles.

Note: Metaphysics is distinguished as general and special.
{General metaphysics} is the science of all being as
being. {Special metaphysics} is the science of one kind
of being; as, the metaphysics of chemistry, of morals,
or of politics. According to Kant, a systematic
exposition of those notions and truths, the knowledge
of which is altogether independent of experience, would
constitute the science of metaphysics.

Commonly, in the schools, called metaphysics, as
being part of the philosophy of Aristotle, which
hath that for title; but it is in another sense:
for there it signifieth as much as ``books
written or placed after his natural philosophy.''
But the schools take them for ``books of
supernatural philosophy;'' for the word
metaphysic will bear both these senses. --Hobbes.

Now the science conversant about all such
inferences of unknown being from its known
manifestations, is called ontology, or
metaphysics proper. --Sir W.
Hamilton.

Metaphysics are [is] the science which determines
what can and what can not be known of being, and
the laws of being, a priori. --Coleridge.

2. Hence: The scientific knowledge of mental phenomena;
mental philosophy; psychology.

Metaphysics, in whatever latitude the term be taken,
is a science or complement of sciences exclusively
occupied with mind. --Sir W.
Hamilton.

Whether, after all, A larger metaphysics might not
help Our physics. --Mrs.
Browning.


Now that we all properly understand what context a metaphysical God could exist in is... it's easier to just sum the idea of God as a meme.

www.silcom.com/~barnowl/chain-letter/glossary.htm wrote:
As defined by Richard Dawkins in The Selfish Gene (1976): "a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation." "Examples of memes are tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches. Just as genes propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperms or eggs, so memes propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the broad sense, can be called imitation." In this sense, chain letter components are memes.


However, this is just the beginning. For memes and meme complexes only exist in theory, belief, the metaphysical, etc. What we're trying to argue is whether this meme transcends all that and is actually a changing force of nature that truly exists and links/governs/inhabits us all. (Am I wrong? Feel free to correct me, because I'm not entirely sure what definition limitations there are...)

Gazing Rabbit wrote:
[S]o if you were to turn the thoughts containing God into 'hard' reality's energy, you'll have God in our space/time continuum, no?"


The question I'm coming up with, is how would we convert metaphysical energy into *physical* energy? Well, whatever energy "reality" is aligned with anyways...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:38 pm 
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Seriously... Kali?
You need to find a dictionary that's more simplified.
I get it... but man was that difinition ever a ball of confusion.

...

I believe in God merely because I do. I can't explain WHY I do... it is merely so. Just a profound feeling within myself that he does in fact exist. Attempting to define his existance through thought and logic is a futile effert at best, since as imperfect beings... and I'm sure we all agree that we're imperfect... attempting to comprehend him is not possible. He is just too far above us for any of it to make sense. Thus we end up with those wonderful and paradoxical loops of logic (if he can do anything can he make something he can't do?).

If someone can believe that we can cause things to exist simply by beleiving in them, then it is not so unreasonable to find proof of the existance of God simply by feeling a connection too him.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:58 pm 
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I believe in God simply because He/She/That Genderless Entity filled in all the holes in our scientific theory as to the origins of the universe.

Once those're filled in with some absolutes (such as making a mini universe, or observing the sudden spontanious generation of matter occur on a massive level), I'll simply devote my free time to poking holes in the theory.


Because I've got nothing better to do, and no real reasons not to.


Oh, and because, without some form of diety to fear, I'd have no logical reason not to slaughter as many people as I could. My morality is based purely upon fear of being seperated from this almighty, and thus never gaining that knowledge, that oneness and final calming of the mind, which I so seek. Should I find, then, that in death I would be faced only with nonexistance, well...

...the line that's drawn between 'people' and 'meat' will cease to exist, as far as I'm concerned. Because, I tell you what, I've had this question running through my mind...



Can a human being eat another human being raw?
While it might seem like a silly question, it still irks me. After all, I am, likely, immune to most of the diseases that the majority of you carry, correct? We are, after all, the same species and are, indeed, both alive, so it seems likely that we would have encountered or been immunized against the same virii and bacteria, so, I have to wonder if I would necessarily have to cook human meat so long as I took it straight off the bone, AKA, still squealing. What's more, any diseases you carry that I do not will most likely be easily beaten by my own immune system, due, again, to our being of the same species and thus posessing similar levels of resistance to disease.


Hey, if any of you can answer that, I'll be able to take "Cannibalism" off my big list of "Things to do if they disprove God." 'Cause it's getting kinda long...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:39 pm 
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We're white meat, so you'd still most likely get some form of food poisoning.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:26 pm 
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Damn shame.

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