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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:40 pm 
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Rupe wrote:
Whee, more chance of getting shipped off to the desert for me. Dammit.

I wonder about that. If enlistment/re-enlistment goes up, each of us has a lower chance of being sent, let alone being send more than once. Besides, Clinton sent US troops to: Bosnia, Kosovo, Somolia, Macedonia, Albania, and Haiti. (I may even have forgotten some) Didn't stop deployments to Kuwait, and drew down the millitary while Optempo constantly increased. Bush has raised recruiting goals, pay and bonuses/incentives (IDP was $150 in '99, now $225)

C_D wrote:
... I think at this point creationism should be taught. Not as the truth, but as what some people believe. I think the same of evolution. Till everybody believes the same thing we should only educate the younger generation so they can make there own choice.

Creationism should be taught in History, Anthropology, Philosophy or Theology. There is no scientific evidence of any kind to back it up, and it doesn't stand up when evaluated with the scientific method, so it does not belong on a science curriculum any more than astrology or philosophy. Evolution has been proven to occur in many species, including homo-sapiens, despite not having been absiolutely proven to be the origin of humanity. If you want to teach creationism, you should also teach the theory that homo-sapiens were genetically engineered by an alien race.
Clay wrote:
If you think the Democrats give a single solitary ounce more of a shit about the poor and disenfranchised than the republicans, I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you.

Be reasonable, Clay. They may not care any more for the disenfranchised, but the voting poor are part of their core constituency, so they care as much about them as any politician cares about his or her constituents.
Marjin wrote:
But I realized that I can't stay young and hang on to stupid idealism forever. It was fun bashing the establishment, hanging out at trendy coffee shops, slacking, protesting, stinking like cigarettes and incense, etc. I just asked myself one day, "Where the hell am I going in life?"
I didn't sell out, son, i bought in. -- SLC Punk
Zrook wrote:
It's always interesting how people bash religion, denigrating the followers and believing that they are much superior, yet all of the leaders of the world, past and present, have a deep faith.
Robert Anson Heinlein as Lazarus Long wrote:
Religion is a crutch for those people who are too weak to stand up to the unknown with help.
I'll admit to a bit of intolerance, i find it difficult to accept anyone whose moral code is rooted in a 1600 year old book (rewritten countless times in order to prop up the least productive proffession in the history of civilization) as an intellectual equal. Call me a bigot.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:56 pm 
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Imp-Chan wrote:
Don't we have a debate board for threads like this?

^-^'

Yea...but since when has Vaergoth EVER posted properly?

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 Post subject: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:00 pm 
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Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Now if you really want a debate, let's do Intelligent Design.

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:19 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Now if you really want a debate, let's do Intelligent Design.


Intelligent Design is just the colorful clown suit Creationism wears.

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:25 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Now if you really want a debate, let's do Intelligent Design.

Okay, here's intelligent design. "We can't explain this given our present knowledge. Therefore, God did it!"

Absence of evidence for current evolutionary theory? Believe it or not, it's not evidence of God.

HOLY CRAP, SCIENTISTS CAN BE WRONG BUT CAN STILL EVENTUALLY EXPLAIN THINGS SCIENTIFICALLY AND ACCURATELY WITHOUT RELYING ON THINGS THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN OR DISPROVEN LIKE FAITH!

GASP!

And here we go.

Everything in the Bible is bunk. It's a story, made up thousands of years ago, just like every other religious work ever written. There's absolutely no factual proof of things in the Bible. Nephilim? Nuhuh. 900 year old humans? Nuhuh. Giant flood that wiped out the entire human race except for eight people? Nope. Are there elements of the Bible story that parallel actual scientific processes? Sure. Is that true of plenty of other myths? Yup.


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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:46 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Now if you really want a debate, let's do Intelligent Design.

I refuse to debate religion. Noone wins. Debating education on the other hand. . .
I don't think anyone has said that "everything in the bible is bunk". However, history isn't a science and shouldn't be taught as such. Creationism is as holey as it is holy. Mutation of organisms over time has been observed in most forms of life. The theoretical part is whether this is pro-survival mutation (and thus evolution). This part of the theory is born out by the observed process of natural selection.

Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such. If it needs to be taught in schools at all, it needs to be taught as "social studies". (Incedently, putting creationism on the ciriculum in government funded schools is a violation of the first amendment prohibition against state sponsored religion.)

Edit:
I wrote:
I don't think anyone has said that "everything in the bible is bunk".
And then Barron did, while i was typing this. So i ammend: Not everything is bunk, but there is very little fact, and even less evidence.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:16 pm 
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Radio wrote:
Marjin wrote:
I was still relying off my parents, never held a real job, and my GPA was going down the crapper. I'm not saying all liberals are like that, perhaps the ones I was hanging around with were a bad influence on me.

I think I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw out the idea that maybe you were just a lazy bastard. Since all those problems you have there really have nothing to do with liberal ideology.


I was a lazy bastard. And I changed that. And, you are right, none of those problems have nothing to do with Liberal ideology, but did result from me hanging out with same-aged liberals when I was in my late teens and early twenties. Go ahead and call me what you want, I am obviously outnumbered in this thread, and I don't want to argue in a non-debate club topic. Some of my former posts on this thread may have came off as inflammatory, so I'm gonna bite the bullet and apologise.

My name is Marjin, and now I am a Conservative Bastard. Horray.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:44 pm 
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Marjin wrote:
My name is Marjin, and now I am a Conservative Bastard. Horray.


I hear he also shoots Psykers when they're attacked by the Perils of the Warp!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:57 pm 
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Sassy wrote:
actor_au wrote:
I didn't vote for the Australian Liberal Party.

/Look them up one day.

The Australian Liberal Party are actually conservatives, not liberals. I didn't vote for them either, not that it matters now...


Actually, they are liberals, just in the continental European sense as opposed to the American left-wing sense.

Somehow the meaning managed to completely change from one end of the world to the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:06 pm 
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themadthinker wrote:
Somehow the meaning managed to completely change from one end of the world to the other.


Yeah... just like the word, "fag."

This has been your random comment of the night.

^-^'

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:51 pm 
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Heh, that reminds me of the time my mom had a couple visiting us in California from Scotland.

She took them to a bar and they requested "a fag" from the guy next to them...

From what I understand it was a fairly awkward moment, given the small town we lived in had more gay people than most...

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:18 pm 
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Emy wrote:
Chaos_Descending wrote:
Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Now if you really want a debate, let's do Intelligent Design.

I refuse to debate religion. Noone wins. Debating education on the other hand. . .
I don't think anyone has said that "everything in the bible is bunk". However, history isn't a science and shouldn't be taught as such. Creationism is as holey as it is holy. Mutation of organisms over time has been observed in most forms of life. The theoretical part is whether this is pro-survival mutation (and thus evolution). This part of the theory is born out by the observed process of natural selection.

Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such. If it needs to be taught in schools at all, it needs to be taught as "social studies". (Incedently, putting creationism on the ciriculum in government funded schools is a violation of the first amendment prohibition against state sponsored religion.)


I agree with Emy. Also, you people talk to much before I read these forums, so I don't have a chance to reply, because what I wanted to say has already been said. :P

Yeah... I was talking with my friend, Mike, (Che's boyfriend) during Halloween. Since he was "the scariest costume of them all" (A Goth) I told him he should be smoking a fag. He just gave me a funny look. All I could say was that I thought they were cigarettes (sometimes clove cigarettes), and that the typical Goth called them "fags" over in Europe and smoked them. Heh.

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:33 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
Ah, but there is some evidence supporting what is in the bible. It's common scietific fact that one cannot simply say "everything in the bible is bunk" without being ignorant on some level. Now I admit, pretty much everything in Genisis should be considered Mythology, but Creationism deserves at least a footnote in schools. It could be as simple as Holes in the evolution theory seems to give credence to the Creationist theory, but it is a losing battle.

Science involves the systematic analysis of physical evidence, and the synthesis of theories that explain that evidence through experiment and observation. Also, scientists are, for the most part, honest enough to admit that they cannot prove a negative -- that the world <i>did not</i> spring forth from the navel of Vishnu.

So while there is no evidence <i>against</i> creationism, there is evidence <i>for</i> evolution. The rules of science say that evolution wins.

That's science. Delving into other abstract possibilities is philosophy, and you could probably make quite a good case that creationism philosophy should be taught along side other philosophies in public schools.

But not as science.

Emy wrote:
Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such.

Some of us might say <i>especially</i> Scientology ... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:39 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
Emy wrote:
Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such.

Some of us might say <i>especially</i> Scientology ... :roll:

What, you mean just because L Ron Hubbard originally wrote Dianetics as a Spoof and the entire book was intended to be sarcastic?

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:43 pm 
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Emy wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Emy wrote:
Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such.

Some of us might say <i>especially</i> Scientology ... :roll:

What, you mean just because L Ron Hubbard originally wrote Dianetics as a Spoof and the entire book was intended to be sarcastic?

Can't say. Afraid of being put on Enemies List and declared 'fair game'.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:17 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
Emy wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Emy wrote:
Religion, even Scientology, is not science and should never be taught as such.

Some of us might say <i>especially</i> Scientology ... :roll:

What, you mean just because L Ron Hubbard originally wrote Dianetics as a Spoof and the entire book was intended to be sarcastic?

Can't say. Afraid of being put on Enemies List and declared 'fair game'.

:roll:


Um. . . I have a bad feeling that i know what you're getting at. . .
On the other hand, i'm "acceptable losses" at best to virtually every other sort of religious extremist.

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:26 pm 
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Emy wrote:
Um. . . I have a bad feeling that i know what you're getting at. . .
On the other hand, i'm "acceptable losses" at best to virtually every other sort of religious extremist.

No, nothing specific. Just being my naturally sarcastic self.
Which doesn't work so well over the inter-web.

Though I do think that any 'church' that actually has an enemies list and a fair game doctrine deserves whatever it gets. Including being labeled a dangerous cult.

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 Post subject: Re: 77%!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:24 pm 
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RMG wrote:
Intelligent Design is just the colorful clown suit Creationism wears.


<3

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:26 am 
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As for intelligent design, I am half-sold on polytheism. As screwed up as the world is, it has to have been designed by comittee. Diskworld-style.
:wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:45 am 
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Marjin wrote:
Radio wrote:
Marjin wrote:
I was still relying off my parents, never held a real job, and my GPA was going down the crapper. I'm not saying all liberals are like that, perhaps the ones I was hanging around with were a bad influence on me.

I think I'm going to go out on a limb here and throw out the idea that maybe you were just a lazy bastard. Since all those problems you have there really have nothing to do with liberal ideology.


I was a lazy bastard. And I changed that. And, you are right, none of those problems have nothing to do with Liberal ideology, but did result from me hanging out with same-aged liberals when I was in my late teens and early twenties. Go ahead and call me what you want, I am obviously outnumbered in this thread, and I don't want to argue in a non-debate club topic. Some of my former posts on this thread may have came off as inflammatory, so I'm gonna bite the bullet and apologise.

My name is Marjin, and now I am a Conservative Bastard. Horray.


i can dig it.

always happy to agree to disagree.

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