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 Post subject: I am angry. I am very angry.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:50 am 
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This is not democracy. I don't know what it is, but unless at LEAST 50% of the country votes, this is not democracy. And don't give me any of that bullshit about "People don't care" or "People don't think their vote matters".

Here's the reason I am so pissed: The punditocracy holds that 1) among "likely voters", 18-29 year olds swung WILDLY toward John Kerry, 2) There were at least 2 new democrat registrations for every new republican registration, 3) and yet, among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted.

*deep breath*

I know that if every eligible man and woman in this country were forced to vote, we would vote overwhelmingly for the democrats every single time. That's because the poor and the disenfranchised would ALWAYS vote for equality, and trust me, they exist in greater numbers than you think.

Yet (and this is where most people will disagree with me) at some point in american history, a person or party has made an effort to disenfranchise all of those who would vote against them, so they feel that voting is worthless. It may not be going on now, but that skepticism about the process is pervasive enough to keep people away from the polls.

This is not democracy.

(MiB, you may now commence cutting me down and humiliating me with one fell swoop.)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:58 am 
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i never understood why america sees it as a right to vote, instead of a responsibility. It's compulsory in Aus.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:58 am 
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In Austalia about 1 in 10 votes are "Donkey" votes (at least in my area, which is a safe seat for one party and unwinnable for the other).
A donkey vote means its illegal(graffiti all over it, numbers not filled out properly etc).
That means that 90% of at least my area votes properly.

That pisses on America.

Also your system is flawed.

Voting on Tuesday makes no sense, electrical and punch ballots are fallable and a lot of other crap just confuses the rest of the planet.
And no run-off voting?
Way to ruin any third parties chances of victory.

Actor.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:31 am 
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The American system is designed more for the thinly veiled illution of fairness rather than any actual want of accuracy.

Also voting on Tuesday is so it is difficult for certain types of people to get to polls. (students, blue collar workers, etc.)

If America really wanted a fair system election day would be a national holiday.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:40 am 
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What we need is the Army of Darkness rising up to conquer America and installing Bruce Campbell as President-Dictator of the US.

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 Post subject: Re: I am angry. I am very angry.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:50 am 
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Vaergoth wrote:
I know that if every eligible man and woman in this country were forced to vote, we would vote overwhelmingly for the democrats every single time. That's because the poor and the disenfranchised would ALWAYS vote for equality, and trust me, they exist in greater numbers than you think.


I don't understand where people come up with things like this. The majority of the country is middle class, not poor. Its the appathetic middle class that doesn't vote. They have no real reason to vote because they aren't doing that badly they need to try to change things. Its the poor and rich people looking for someone to cater to them that are most motivated to vote. If the majority of the middle class people voted we would see far less democrats because people don't like paying taxes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:24 am 
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Yeah, I think that needing a plurality should be necessary.

(for those who don't know, a plurality is when 50% of the people involved in running the show are there -- in a city council of 7 people, they can't hold an official meeting unless 4 of them are there, as that constitutes a plurality. So unless 50%+ voted, none of the votes would count.)

edit: this means that if you really don't want to vote for any of the people running (because they all suck), then your non-vote actually means something -- if enough people see things your way, then the entire district is voided out.

It's either this, or making three options: dem, rep, neither (counts as a negative vote for both dem and rep).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:42 am 
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
The American system is designed more for the thinly veiled illution of fairness rather than any actual want of accuracy.

Also voting on Tuesday is so it is difficult for certain types of people to get to polls. (students, blue collar workers, etc.)

If America really wanted a fair system election day would be a national holiday.

If I recall...We always vote on the day after the first monday in November because in revolutionary times it was the day that all the farmers would be coming into town for market, so it was actually convenient.

But wait, why didn't I say the first tuesday? Because it's not written that way. The first day of November is All-Saints-Day, something that was actually celebrated way back when.

Note how many times I referenced the past as a reason.
Note how many times I referenced the present that had reasons.

THE US ELECTORAL SYSTEM NEEDS A FUCKING OVERHAUL.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:58 am 
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Herbal Enema wrote:
Yeah, I think that needing a plurality should be necessary.

(for those who don't know, a plurality is when 50% of the people involved in running the show are there -- in a city council of 7 people, they can't hold an official meeting unless 4 of them are there, as that constitutes a plurality. So unless 50%+ voted, none of the votes would count.)

edit: this means that if you really don't want to vote for any of the people running (because they all suck), then your non-vote actually means something -- if enough people see things your way, then the entire district is voided out.

It's either this, or making three options: dem, rep, neither (counts as a negative vote for both dem and rep).


Sorry, but no. You're thinking of a quorum, which would be nice, but isn't doable unless we make voting compulsory like Aus does. A plurality means that no one got over 50% of the vote, so the winner is the person who gets the highest percentage. This happens in elections with more than two options (real options, Nader wasn't even on Oregon's ballot), and honestly I don't think it'd be a good idea either. Imagine an election with three almost equal parties. the split is 33/33/34 in the popular vote. 34 wins by plurality, and yet two thirds of the country don't want him in office. That, and there are now two candidates who will contest results in certain states.

And BDM, I don't see why you're saying that. If you want Kerry in office, it makes more sense to worry about overcoming 130,000 votes (last i checked) than 4,000,000. This time, the electoral system is in your favor. Unless you really don't care about this election and think it needs an overhaul anyway, which it does.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:18 am 
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Wow. American bitching about Election turnouts, and Varegoth.

No wonder I don't give a fuck what it has to say.

-Kitty

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:32 am 
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At this point, I don't give a fuck about who won, earning for Kerry, etc. I'm just talking election.

Oh, by the way...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:32 am 
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Presidential Election 2004 - The NEW Goth Poetry.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:56 am 
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<3 @ darkie.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:19 am 
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Quick, somebody call whine-one-one! We need a Waaaaaaaambulance!

Kerry got his ass kicked. Grow a pair and get over it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:30 pm 
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Insane_Megalamaniac wrote:
Quick, somebody call whine-one-one! We need a Waaaaaaaambulance!

Kerry got his ass kicked. Grow a pair and get over it.


No thank you, I'd rather not have them exposed to the radiation when Bush finally snaps and decides we need to "use them there nukular berms."

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 Post subject: Re: I am angry. I am very angry.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:37 pm 
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Vaergoth wrote:
This is not democracy. I don't know what it is, but unless at LEAST 50% of the country votes, this is not democracy. And don't give me any of that bullshit about "People don't care" or "People don't think their vote matters".

Here's the reason I am so pissed: The punditocracy holds that 1) among "likely voters", 18-29 year olds swung WILDLY toward John Kerry, 2) There were at least 2 new democrat registrations for every new republican registration, 3) and yet, among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted

Am I missing something, or are you just ignoring the fact that we actually had ~60% total voter turnout?


Compulsory voting: Oh, of course. More laws will make us more free.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:48 pm 
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Meh, I won $5, I should have bet more on Bush.

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 Post subject: Re: I am angry. I am very angry.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:18 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
Vaergoth wrote:
This is not democracy. I don't know what it is, but unless at LEAST 50% of the country votes, this is not democracy. And don't give me any of that bullshit about "People don't care" or "People don't think their vote matters".

Here's the reason I am so pissed: The punditocracy holds that 1) among "likely voters", 18-29 year olds swung WILDLY toward John Kerry, 2) There were at least 2 new democrat registrations for every new republican registration, 3) and yet, among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted

Am I missing something, or are you just ignoring the fact that we actually had ~60% total voter turnout?


Compulsory voting: Oh, of course. More laws will make us more free.

Quote:
among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted.

I'm as ambivalent towards the results as i was towards the canticates. Here's hoping Bush doesn't pass any monumentaly stupid (read: religious) laws in the next four years. Maybe i'll move to vermont or Cali when i finish college and wait for all these retarded gay marriage bans to be declared unconstitutional because they constitute state sponsorship of religion.

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 Post subject: Re: I am angry. I am very angry.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:12 pm 
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Emy wrote:
Thinman wrote:
Vaergoth wrote:
This is not democracy. I don't know what it is, but unless at LEAST 50% of the country votes, this is not democracy. And don't give me any of that bullshit about "People don't care" or "People don't think their vote matters".

Here's the reason I am so pissed: The punditocracy holds that 1) among "likely voters", 18-29 year olds swung WILDLY toward John Kerry, 2) There were at least 2 new democrat registrations for every new republican registration, 3) and yet, among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted

Am I missing something, or are you just ignoring the fact that we actually had ~60% total voter turnout?


Compulsory voting: Oh, of course. More laws will make us more free.

Quote:
among those new 18-29 year old registrations, only 17% of them actually voted.


I was talking about how the top paragraph and the bottom paragraph don't go together....

Voter turnout was high, possibly even a record, and Varegoth is bitching about <s>Bush winning</s> low turnouts and how unfair it is that we aren't all marched to the voting booth at gunpoint.

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