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 Post subject: Bush? Rigging Votes? I'm incredulous!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:23 am 
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http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Report ... adsen.html

Any thoughts? Validity? Lack thereof? Someone's pantsing me, /. and fark?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:47 am 
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I don't know how true or not that is but something really stinks about the previous two American elections, especially after all the stuff i've heard about Diebold.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:01 pm 
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Personally, I think it was rigged. But it doesn't make a damn difference. It'll never be proven true, and if it is, what would be the difference? Would Kerry become president? I thought he already gave up any chance at holding office.

I don't know. I don't follow politics closely.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:19 pm 
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I wouldn't be suprised. I just think it's rather irrelevant at this stage in the game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:19 am 
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Well, it might be enough to impeach Bush, Cheney, prolly Hasbert and some other members of his cabinet.

Only question, will it be quick enough for Powell to get the seat before he leaves?

Though I don't see this happening at all. But I can still be pissed over it.

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 Post subject: Don't jump down my throat for this
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:08 pm 
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I will preface by saying I hate Buish, supported Kerry, and I do think that there election had problems.

However, a somewhat neutral party took an interesting analysis of it. A group from MIT and Caltech investigated the irregulaties, and found the statistics didn't wade out. The disagreement between the actual results and the exit polls was not statistically linked to an increase in Bush votes in the area. The group felt that that errors beyond the margin of the error of the exit polls was not statistically skewed in favor of either candidate.

That said, I completely disagree with their finding. The group felt that exit polls had the same 3% error that polling before the vote has. However, that isn't true. Exit polling should have an error of less than 1% of real results because you are no longer polling the universe of potential voters, but the universe of people who actually voted.

Also, all the complaints I heard about the machines are crazy. I'm a computer science student, and given a government grant, without even having my BSE yet, I think I could build a more reliable machine for touch screen voting than this company did. A program that tabulates votes isn't something complicated that should crash often or lock up often.

Now, if you wanted to write a program that has parts that other people on the project don't know that change voting tallies, and then erases itself so there is no or little trace of the code that edited the database... well that would be harder, and a lot more prone to crashing during its running. That's just how I see it.

Also, it doesn't even get into the voter intimidation by Republicans in Ohio, and Florida trying to make minorities go home instead of stay in line to vote.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:53 am 
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seneca wrote:
That said, I completely disagree with their finding. The group felt that exit polls had the same 3% error that polling before the vote has. However, that isn't true. Exit polling should have an error of less than 1% of real results because you are no longer polling the universe of potential voters, but the universe of people who actually voted.

And the absentee voters, the ones who voted early?

And, yeah, it does sound pretty simple to tabulate a vote.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:29 am 
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Diebold's process and the lack of associated accountability makes this type of rumor inevitable and not implausible.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:39 pm 
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<a href="http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/11/17/media_accused_of_ignoring_election_irregularities/">http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/11/17/media_accused_of_ignoring_election_irregularities/</a>

Interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:28 am 
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You never know...but I think the Democrats at this point are licking their wounds over the whole thing....

...damn you 2 party system.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:45 am 
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Hey, maybe Kerry lost because he ran a really shitty campaign? I mean, Bush managed to label him as a flip-flopper, a gun control nut, etc (tired. can't remember more) and Kerry did, um, what about it?

Is saying "I changed my mind because the second idea was much better for America" so hard to say?

Damn commie/socialist whining.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:38 am 
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Chris THe Great wrote:
Hey, maybe Kerry lost because he ran a really shitty campaign? I mean, Bush managed to label him as a flip-flopper, a gun control nut, etc (tired. can't remember more) and Kerry did, um, what about it?

Don't discount the possibility that Kerry might have been a weak candidate.

Quote:
Is saying "I changed my mind because the second idea was much better for America" so hard to say?

Funny, I think he may have said something like that at one point or another.

Quote:
Damn commie/socialist whining.

Damn talkshow-pundit/No-spin-zone bitching.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:24 pm 
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Chris THe Great wrote:
Hey, maybe Kerry lost because he ran a really shitty campaign? I mean, Bush managed to label him as a flip-flopper, a gun control nut, etc (tired. can't remember more) and Kerry did, um, what about it?


Funny how Bush has to resort to labels instead of actually talking about the issues.

Kerry was a weak candidate. A terribly weak candidate. The fact that Bush barely beat him, and that he probably resorted to vote rigging to do it, speaks volumes about the strength of Bush as a president.

Chris THe Great wrote:
Is saying "I changed my mind because the second idea was much better for America" so hard to say?


The GOP has gotten adept over the past 20 years at twisting around people's words and telling outright lies by proxy. He did admit to changing posistions, and Republicans everywhere took it at validation of their flawed posistion and only chanted it louder. They broke into his campaign stops and tried to heckle him off stage (stump?). Where as if you wanted to get into a Bush-Cheney campaign stop you had to either be a republican or sign a form that stated you'd vote for him on November 2nd.

Chris THe Great wrote:
Damn commie/socialist whining.


*nod* That it is. Because no one else is saying shit about it. So you dodge the subject by attempting to marginalize me as a "whiner" or "crybaby." Wake the fuck up. If you disagree with my posistion then disagree with me. You only look like a retard by dismissing me off hand as if you have a mandate from God.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:14 pm 
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What if he does have a mandate from god, hmmm?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:27 pm 
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Look at what happened the last time we had a "mandate from God."

I'll give you a hint, it involved the death of 15 million people.

And I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:44 pm 
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I don't think Odin likes him enough to give him a mandate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:51 pm 
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Look at what happened the last time we had a "mandate from God."

I'll give you a hint, it involved the death of 15 million people.

And I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic.


I'm pretty sure it was a joke. I don't know anyone on these forums that dumb. HE has had some pretty good debates way back when that I used to be a fan of reading.

I mean... even I, a mere high schooler, know the dangers of people who claim to have the "mandate from God." XD No... CTG was just... putting forth a weaker arguement than Kerry was as a candidate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:18 am 
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The thing is, CTG lives rather close to me....

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:10 pm 
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I was bored, and decided I felt like annoying people.

And Kerry looks like a horse

Mainly, it was because there are so many people out there ranting about how Bush is Hitler, the reason he won is because the vote was completely rigged, and because their candidate didn't win the election America is no longer a democracy. :-?

Since I didn't follow the campaign very closely, not really caring who gets elected as it won't effect my everyday life much at all, I'm not really in a position to debate.

*Chris the great wanders off*


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:22 am 
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Chris THe Great wrote:
Mainly, it was because there are so many people out there ranting about how Bush is Hitler, the reason he won is because the vote was completely rigged, and because their candidate didn't win the election America is no longer a democracy. :-?


I honestly wouldn't care who won if I believed they won fairly and honorably (which seems to be becoming more and more rare in politics today). If Kerry won by rigging votes I'd be making noise as well. Not as much to be certain, as I happen to think a wooden plank in the White House is better than an asshole, but noise would be made.

And I happen to enjoy my democracy, and I don't like the idea of a group of people fucking with it to get themselves elected or reelected. One person one vote is the ideal of democracy, if that doesn't happen the democracy was broken, irreguardless of who won.

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