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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:53 pm 
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krylex wrote:
clearchannel


GRAAAAAAAAAAH! :evil:

....

Anyways, there's something to be said for conciseness. There's also something to be said for long-windedness. Different pieces of music are not necessarily created with the same goals, and it's important to appreciate a song on its own terms. I'm captivated by, say, a Ramones song because of how little is happening in the song while still being interesting. It's like the aural equivalent of a haiku. When I listen to Yes, on the other hand, it's the aural equivalent of an epic poem. I don't judge a haiku by the same criteria by which I would judge an epic, and vice versa. The same should apply to music. The Yes aesthetic is very maximalist ("more is more"), whereas the Ramones aesthetic is very minimalist ("less is more"). This is oversimplification, of course; the Velvet Underground's "Sister Ray" is like 3 sloppily-played chords, but goes on for 20 minutes and eventually degenerates into white noise - that's not quite minimalist in the Ramones way, but it's certainly not Yes. The point is, music is not good because it's long, or good because it's short. Different styles require different things. However, refusing to listen to a song above a certain length is a sign of aesthetic narrow-mindedness.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:15 pm 
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IcyMonkey wrote:
refusing to listen to a song because of its length is a sign of aesthetic narrow-mindedness.
fixed

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:34 pm 
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Long guitar solos can be good, but they have to be very good to be listenable too often - there are a fair number of songs that I just skip the middle.

Speaking of long songs and unmarketability, has anybody else here heard of Crash Worship?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:42 pm 
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Um...

Just go buy Green Day's latest. Lenght of song isn't the issue. It's the song. The quality. The art.

So fuck this noise.

-Kitty

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:55 pm 
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Green Day's latest failed to impress me.

And if I hear that single they released from it one more time I think I'll kill something. I don't even listen to the radio anymore and I just can't fucking escape this song!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:15 pm 
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Ah the joys of song length, it's like billy joel said in the 70s.

I am the entertainer
I come to do my show
You’ve heard my latest record
It’s been on the radio
Ah, it took me years to write it
They were the best years of my life
It was a beautiful song
But it ran too long
If you’re gonna have a hit
You gotta make it fit
So they cut it down to 3:05

For the song to be popular it needs to get air time. To get air time it needs to be a managable length, usually not more the 3:30. It's gone from a standard imposed by radio stations to allow them to fit more stuff in a block of time to a music industry enforced standard. But mostly everyone that's said something here has acknowledged that there is good music over that time limit, and under it. But to refer back to the origional post, length is a fairly dumb reason to not like a song. Though as a warning this is coming from a person who owns cd's with 15 minute tracks on them.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:23 pm 
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H-Kat wrote:
Um...

Just go buy Green Day's latest. Lenght of song isn't the issue. It's the song. The quality. The art.

So fuck this noise.

-Kitty


Yes. The suckiness, the half-assed lyrics. A couple of good chords to make up for all of the crap! Let's go throw our money away for some CD that says what every other mainstream CD does, with slightly better melody than the rest. Just don't listen to any of the lyrics or take anything seriously, and you're set!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:38 am 
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Kali_Ava wrote:
H-Kat wrote:
Um...

Just go buy Green Day's latest. Lenght of song isn't the issue. It's the song. The quality. The art.

So fuck this noise.

-Kitty


Yes. The suckiness, the half-assed lyrics. A couple of good chords to make up for all of the crap! Let's go throw our money away for some CD that says what every other mainstream CD does, with slightly better melody than the rest. Just don't listen to any of the lyrics or take anything seriously, and you're set!


While I'm not really a big fan of Green Day, I'm sure attacking someone's musical taste doesn't really help in this debate about the length of songs. I could just ignore Billy Joe's lyrics altogether and think of his vocals as just an instrument to deliver some sound I mildly like and find the music somewhat enjoyable, albeit it being a guilty pleasure.

I myself listen to quite a lot of punk music, which it seems most of it is relatively short, but if the songs lasted much longer I'm sure the band would die. I guess I like my music to not be uneccessarily long/repetitive. It should convey whatever message it needs to, while not outlasting its welcome. NOFX's the decline is a little over 18 minutes long but isn't very repetive, while maintaining a certain theme/feeling throughout the song, which keeps it enjoyable the whole way through. Now if I go back and listen to some of my old Soundgarden cds they sometimes seem unbearably long and repetitive.

I love most classical music despite its length, but then again those songs sort of shift your mood or the tension throughout, prolonging my desire to listen to them. Surgei Rachmaninoff(Rachmaninov) kicks my ass.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:04 am 
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I don't like pop music --> I don't listen to pop music.
I like metal and rock music --> I listen to metal and rock music.
But that's just me.

Anyway, the average length in my playlist is somewhere between 5 and 6 minutes. Why? 'cause metal music is made for quality, not quantity. Ever heard Dream Theater's "Change of Seasons" (20 minutes of accustic[sp?] goodness)?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:38 pm 
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Cpt. Supermarket wrote:
While I'm not really a big fan of Green Day, I'm sure attacking someone's musical taste doesn't really help in this debate about the length of songs. I could just ignore Billy Joe's lyrics altogether and think of his vocals as just an instrument to deliver some sound I mildly like and find the music somewhat enjoyable, albeit it being a guilty pleasure.


You're right. I was rather out of line. I'm sorry... I get a bit worked up when it comes to music.

I object to "Boulevard of Broken Dreams"'s length, because the melody was nice, but everything they used to execute it was pretty awful. So four minutes and twenty seconds of mediocre quality music FULL of repetition seems to defeat the purpose of being a short song. I will give it that it has more thoughtful melody and was better than most radio hits you hear.

I'm one to be partial to long songs, with thoughtful lyrics and melodic variety. Ones you can really get lost in, and for blissful minutes, really relax. Making the song about five to seven minutes. Anything shorter, that's good, makes me feel robbed.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:16 am 
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I have no guilty pleasure about it. Frankly, I actively listen the the lyrics to the *album*.

Basically, what you heard was one of the middle chapters. This is something I thought about constantly - The album, the entire album, is a story. You're hearing chapter four, and I'll wager you havn't heard anything else one the album, except perhaps When September Ends, Holiday, or, of course, American Idiot. If I read chapter four of, say, a Anne Bishop book, or listened to the lamest B-side of a Beatles album, then I'd theoretically toss it away without giving it interest, too.

(Myself personally, tho, would listen to the rest of the album, or read the start of the book. I prefer not to jump the gun on something that might be great.)

Don't mistake that they're just making chart hit anti-Bush songs. Yes, this is a point, but it's only a point that's being used to tell the story itself.

As for Green Day's ability as lyrist... they sing in metaphor. Think about what they're saying, and then make up your mind then.

But please, not before.

And definately not before you actually hear the album - to do otherwise is simple closed-mindedness.

-Kitty

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:15 pm 
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I'm only so picky about it because I actually like the song. Harhar. I am a sucker for melody and a matching voice. But everything in my head is screaming "NO NEVER NOT GREEN DAYoneoneseven" (I happen to loathe Green Day, because most of their music, IMO, is not worth the millions spent to obtain it/produce it - but if it satisfies the masses, than woteva)

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greenday ... reams.html

So I was reading the lyrics of the new album. I'm not going to subject myself to music I don't like and am just going to whine about later. I have my own snide comments, but I'm not out to be super-bitch.

Eitherway, looking through... it seems BoBD is probably one of the worst tracks available. The other lyrics look much more thought out and worked on, rather than a thirty second hit.

I don't know about musically speaking. I had a couple of pedantic points about the way they used their sound effects and amps and whatnot to carry out the song... but not an issue.

Still think it was about a minute longer than it needed to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Sugershock Music Effect
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:44 pm 
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Chaos_Descending wrote:
I have my own thoughts about the matter, but I want to see other's opinions.

I've been sorting through a bunch of OC Remix stuff, and I've been looking at the reviews.

There is this godly Tetris remix that is as close to perfection as I have ever heard. While everyone loved it, they all said it was too long.

What gives. Why are we so inclined for little shots of 3 minite diddies when we used to be able to feast on hour long symphonies?


Thoughts?


catchy. i'm going to leave it on repeat here in the techbay at work all day.

as for length of songs, ect, music has grown in it's number of roles, due in no small part to the ability to record the sound.

It used to be, if you wanted some tunez, there were two ways to get it. song/play some music, or get someone to sing/play for you. So either you were a musician, or you paid one anytime you wanted a song.

Since you were paying for the privilidge every time, the product you were buying had to be perceived worth the value, so the performers had to really PERFORM for you.

Once the ability to record music arrived, this changed. if you wanted a tune now, you got out your wak roll and put it on the phonograph-thing, wound the handle - and lo! sweet melody caressed your ears. you didn't even need anyone that knew anything about music nearby.

from this evolved todays market. If all recordable media suddenly stopped working overnight, i'm quite sure many popular bands would be fed to the wolves for substandard live music, and composers would need orchestras again.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:06 pm 
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H-Kat wrote:
As for Green Day's ability as lyrist... they sing in metaphor. Think about what they're saying, and then make up your mind then.

But please, not before.

And definately not before you actually hear the album - to do otherwise is simple closed-mindedness.

-Kitty


I've listened to the album in its entirety. My previous judgement was a bit harsh, but in all honesty it was just... really downhill from their previous stuff. Now, admittedly, that listen-through was in a car trip and not exactly intended as an evaluatory listen - I wasn't paying a huge amount of attention to the music, other than the aural equivalent of a quick glance (as opposed to a full look). I can certainly give it a fuller listen if you feel it's that huge of a cultural accomplishment, but it's not something I feel a pressing need to put myself through.

...and I'll admit, probably the main reason I like most old Green Day is nostalgia, first heard it around seventh grade, whereas much of the reason I disliked the most recent CD is that without the nostalgic love I'm forced to realize that it isn't at all my favorite style of music. Ahh, but that's an entirely seperate discussion.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:58 am 
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I think it'd be a major cultural apex... if the majority didn't have a voice in their head that said 'ZOMG GREEN DAY H8SSSS'.

...

But yeah, BoBD is one of the weaker songs. Even the much lame When September ends had lyrics going for it. But it's a harebrained masses who decide what everyone else listens to.

I'm much more partial to the second and twelveth tracks, which are actually songs in five parts... very new.

-Kitty

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:20 pm 
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H-Kat wrote:
I think it'd be a major cultural apex... if the majority didn't have a voice in their head that said 'ZOMG GREEN DAY H8SSSS'.


I've never liked them because I don't think their music is very good. Especially when I hear it everywhere I go from the majority of twelve years olds preaching Minority's lyrics and message (it really ruins any song). I mean, the whole of America was singing it... which gave me a little ironic laugh. Majority of people saying they want to be a Minority. Hehehe.

Maybe it's not so big in Canada, but in America, Green Day is everywhere. I don't think I could name a bigger current Punk Band if I tried.

<b>editu:</b> I don't really have a problem with their latest album, persay. I don't have a problem, even if mainstream bands are spouting punk philosophies. I mean... Green Day is supposed to be a Punk band. So singing about Punk ideals is fine. I congratulate them on that.

However, it doesn't strike me that anything they're saying is particularly new and exciting. Maybe it'll bring about a cultural apex... if it indeed DOES inspire the mindless sheep following of mainstream music media to become individuals and think for themselves. That would be wonderful. But somehow, I don't think sheep really understand the message that's being conveyed in the album story.

And... it is very popular.

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Last edited by Kali_Ava on Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 3:57 pm 
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Maybe the lack of interest in sitting down and "listening" is due to the lack of complexity in modern music, coupled with the ADHD tendancies of modern society? We're a nation of multitaskers who thrive on stimulation Perhaps just hanging out and listening to music isn't interesting enough for today's TV saturated people.

As for Green Day: I register a big "eh" in their direction. I enjoy listening to them when I want some good background noise, but to me, their songs all sound about the same. I haven't heard the new album. Perhaps the fact that I'm too ambivalent toward them to even steal it is telling.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 11:18 pm 
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I liked Greenday's older stuff better. It has a harmonica and somehow isn't country. The new album just seems a bit too popish for my taste. Though I do listen to a lot of Greenday mostly because my boss is big fan A good long song to listen to with few lyrics: Zwan Jesus, I/Mary Star of the Sea. I'm aware that there is a short radio edited version, but the full 14:04 has some awesome guitaring.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:51 pm 
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Modern music has a message to convey, has underlying meanings, get out your words, get out your thoughts, and be done with it. Whereas: classical, electronic music, instrumentals are more to be listened to and enjoyed, with very few lyrics, at least now, they are used more for you to lose yourself in, to relax with that is their main focus, Jazz and Big Band/Swing is also in this category. Most bands now, have a message, they're angry or they're disgruntled and they want the world to know about it. One reason why I can't stand most modern music is for the fact that the singer is saying, "I'm hurt, I'm disappointed, I've been saddened and hurt by my family, my girlfriend, my friends, the bum I just gave a quarter too down on 5th avenue, they piss me off, and to make sure that you got the message that they piss me off I'm going to yell in the middle of my song to get the fact that I'm hurting and I'm rebelling." Unfortunately that's getting kind of old. Get me some old Police, or the Moody Blues, if you want good music.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:35 am 
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Well, if you're hurting and rebeling, what're you supposed to write about? How sweet their shoes are, or dinosaurs?

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