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 Post subject: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:57 pm 
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Our declaration of independence states:
"...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government"

This basic right to alter the government exists in several ways - such as the right to vote, freedom of speech, and the right to a jury of peers. By implication it is also the duty of a citizen to vote, to be informed, and to serve on a jury. Do the American people also have an implied duty to own and maintain a weapon?

In our government, we have a rather elaborate scheme of checks and balances. The segmentation of the government, such that each part in some way is working against the others is why the system works. The ultimate check/balance of the system is our protected right to bear arms. Simply put: if the people are unhappy, government officials die. The governing body is expected to exist in fear of the governed people.

Have we become complacent in this role? Does the lack of an armed and dangerous public allowed our government to operate unchecked?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:49 pm 
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First, the fuck?

Second, what's this we stuff, paleface?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:56 pm 
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Yes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:58 pm 
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I've alway found it odd that the people most in favour of guns-to-overthrow-government are usually in government themselves.
And often froth at the mouth more than old yeller.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:02 pm 
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I don't froth at the mouth!

. . . I am however currently stuck as a badly paid government contract worker, so that part of your statement applies to me at least.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:33 pm 
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I was refering to Politicians.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:30 am 
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I don't think it's implied that american's have the duty to bear arms, however, it is stated that we have a duty to fight for what we believe in. If you think this means taking a gun and going after officials, then I hope you have alot of people following you, otherwise you're going down.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:13 am 
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Ylis wrote:

In our government, we have a rather elaborate scheme of checks and balances. The segmentation of the government, such that each part in some way is working against the others is why the system works. The ultimate check/balance of the system is our protected right to bear arms. Simply put: if the people are unhappy, government officials die. The governing body is expected to exist in fear of the governed people.

Have we become complacent in this role? Does the lack of an armed and dangerous public allowed our government to operate unchecked?


Unless "the public" gets its hands on nukes, tanks, and fighter jets, I doubt they'll be able to do much damage to the gummint.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:51 pm 
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RMG wrote:
Ylis wrote:

In our government, we have a rather elaborate scheme of checks and balances. The segmentation of the government, such that each part in some way is working against the others is why the system works. The ultimate check/balance of the system is our protected right to bear arms. Simply put: if the people are unhappy, government officials die. The governing body is expected to exist in fear of the governed people.

Have we become complacent in this role? Does the lack of an armed and dangerous public allowed our government to operate unchecked?


Unless "the public" gets its hands on nukes, tanks, and fighter jets, I doubt they'll be able to do much damage to the gummint.
One of the benefits of democracy (or even the barely democratic republic of America) is that "the public" are the ones operating the nukes, tanks, and fighter jets.

I would not say that owning a personal firearm is an implied duty. I would, however, say that it is a necessary freedom. Not because you'll need it to march against the government, it's much easier just to ignore them until they come to you, then you can fight on your home turf.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:56 pm 
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Emy wrote:
One of the benefits of democracy (or even the barely democratic republic of America) is that "the public" are the ones operating the nukes, tanks, and fighter jets.


Point taken.




Of course, if that's the case, why is having firearms in the hands of private citizens a necessary counterbalance to government power or whatever?

Perhaps a more important question to ask is why am I even getting involved in this debate in the first place. Gun control is one of the few issues that I don't really care about it. I mean, I have an opinion on it and everything, but it's not a huge component of my political identity or anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:15 pm 
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RMG wrote:
Of course, if that's the case, why is having firearms in the hands of private citizens a necessary counterbalance to government power or whatever?
1) It's a lot harder to point a gun at someone and tell them what to do if they have a gun to point back.
2) A government that uses nukes on its own people doesn't have anythign left to govern, and Iraq is showing us how well fighter jets and tanks work against people with guns when the people who are shooting at you don't look any different than the ones who aren't.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:21 pm 
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This is why I let people like Emy do the arguing on this subject. They're far more eloquent and well-spoken than I could ever be. I'll just provide the firepower should it ever prove necessary.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:44 am 
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Yes, but I'm pretty sure Emy's some level of officer. So she has more firepower at her command than you do. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Is it the Duty of an American Citizen to own a gun?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:36 am 
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Ylis wrote:
Does the lack of an armed and dangerous public allowed our government to operate unchecked?

Now that's an interesting question... I would say yes, 'cause my government is so corupt that we had wanted criminals in it.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:11 am 
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nick012000 wrote:
Yes, but I'm pretty sure Emy's some level of officer. So she has more firepower at her command than you do. :wink:


1. Emy and I are both enlisted, she's just got far more time in service than I do, and is also a good deal smarter than me. Being an officer certainly does not guarantee any degree of intelligence.

2. I am solely in charge of an Infantry company arms room, so at a guess, I have access to far more firepower than most.
One small example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/ ... m240b2.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 4:48 am 
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Rupert The Guerilla Rat wrote:
nick012000 wrote:
Yes, but I'm pretty sure Emy's some level of officer. So she has more firepower at her command than you do. :wink:


1. Emy and I are both enlisted, she's just got far more time in service than I do, and is also a good deal smarter than me. Being an officer certainly does not guarantee any degree of intelligence.

I thought that she mentioned that she was underegoing officer training at some point... but it doesn't really matter.

Quote:
2. I am solely in charge of an Infantry company arms room, so at a guess, I have access to far more firepower than most.
One small example: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/ ... m240b2.jpg

Nice picture. It would be even better if they were loaded, though. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:03 pm 
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I own guns because I'm the only one responsible for my well-being and that of my family. I'm not going to rely on some criminal bastard to show mercy and not kill me/rape my girlfriend if we cooperate and I'm not going to wait forty minutes for the cops to unass themselves from the donut shop and get over here while somebody is breaking into my house and coming at me with a knife.

That said, just because most Americans don't own machine guns, rocket launchers, tanks, etc. we would be QUITE capable of resisting a tyrannical government. You ever seen what a couple million pissed off people with guns can do to a couple thousand guys with machine guns and armored vehicles who aren't being paid enough to put up with this shit?

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