ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:01 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Ending citizenship by birthright
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:09 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:43 pm
Posts: 1096
There's <a href="http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051103-115741-1048r.htm">talk of eliminating US citizenship by birthright</a> as a step towards dealing with illegal immigration. The theory goes that eliminating so called "anchor babies" will make it harder for illegals to gain citizenship. This, combined with a guest worker program that allows non-citizens access to jobs is supposed to eliminate the motivations for border hopping and visa violations. On the other hand, if you've been paying attention to the news, you'll notice that one of the root causes of the riots in France appears to be a lack of democratic participation by French-Arab immigrants.

So, do you think a tough-on-naturalization policy will work as a deterrent to illegal immigration? Or will guest worker programs and a high standard for full citizenship just create a new class of workers without government representation?

My personal feeling is that guest worker programs are mainly acknowledgments of the current state of affairs, but erecting barriers to citizenship seems ... un-American somehow. Major ethnic immigrations have always been turbulent. (The Irish during the potato famine, Chinese labor in California, etc.) And the complaints are always the same. Ethnic insularity, lack of integration, working for substandard wages, taking jobs from native citizens) After a period of integration, things restablize. As free marketeers, the conservatives should realize this.

_________________
Always watching, ever vigilant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ending citizenship by birthright
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2038 9:00 pm
Posts: 3209
Thinman wrote:
As free marketeers, the conservatives should realize this.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention post-9/11, but I certainly wouldn't characterize the Republicans as fiscally conservative anymore.

_________________
election results: still an op
Let me put it to you this way: I earned capital in the campaign, political capital, and now I intend to spend it. It is my style.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:32 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:43 pm
Posts: 1096
If they're going to use it as a campaign plank, I'm going to call them on it. Remember, this is the Anti-Protectionist party too. :-?

As a practical matter, yes, the Republican party is divided between neo-cons and social and fiscal conservatives. I'm hoping the social conservatives will keep making their crazy demands for a Christian State and keep alienating the Republican party's corporate masters and the neo-cons will keep demanding their crazy foreign policies and keep alienating Republican voters.

A real crack in the two party system would be nice and Fiscal Conservatism breeds moderates in a way that Apocalyptic Christianity just doesn't.

_________________
Always watching, ever vigilant


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:19 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:14 pm
Posts: 2045
we are kind of seeing this already. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1126781,00.html Republican canditate for governor of VIRGINIA didn't campaign with Bush when he was in town recently. The election is aparantly too close to call. Republicans are worried that apcolyptic Christianity might not last them 6 years, and they might lose congress.

I heard a poll on NPR earlier today that said if all congress persons were elected tomorrow, that public opinion polls show that both houses would belong to democrats.

_________________
All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:33 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 1004
Location: Denton County
arwing wrote:
I heard a poll on NPR earlier today that said if all congress persons were elected tomorrow, that public opinion polls show that both houses would belong to democrats.


That's becase you would be hard-pressed to find a conservative that actually listens to NPR.

_________________
DNI'ed by Wandering Idiot for my complete and utter lack of any special talent whatsoever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:17 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:14 pm
Posts: 2045
Marjin wrote:
arwing wrote:
I heard a poll on NPR earlier today that said if all congress persons were elected tomorrow, that public opinion polls show that both houses would belong to democrats.


That's becase you would be hard-pressed to find a conservative that actually listens to NPR.
This is true, but it was in a quote of a Democratic senator IIRC. Though I suppose that makes it less reliable. The Dems won Virginia BTW.

_________________
All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:04 pm 
Offline
n00b

Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
I like the idea. I see it as unfair that I get to be a Canadian for free (as well as people who flee here from oppression) simply due to being here. A lot of immigrants have to pass exams and be considered worthy to be a citizen.

That sucks, it's simply not fair. It takes away an opportunity to show that I'm worthy. I'd be a lot more of a proud citizen if I had to earn my right to be hear through written examination.

This would be a good thing to do for voting age. Basically, make it so children aren't citizens, they're under the care of citizens (parents) or the government (orphanages). Then, when they're old enough, they can apply for citizenship. When they pass, they get all the benefits and the vote.

Any problem with it? Makes sense to me...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:17 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3447
Location: New York
Speaking from my experience in Germany, where third and fourth generation Turks who are completely Westernized, have never even been near the Mideast in their life, and sometimes don't even speak a word of their ancestral language still are not German citizens, I can confidently say that ending birthright citizenship would be unbelievably retarded and could only lead to bad things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:40 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:31 pm
Posts: 1496
Location: Seattle, Washington
Can you restate that with shorter sentences? It sounds like you're saying that in Germany there's birthright citizenship only for being the son of a German person.

_________________
http://www.ericaenns.com
http://spools.comicgen.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:57 pm 
Offline
n00b

Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada
I think what he means is that giving birthright citizenship only to the children of current citizens isn't fair because children born of foreigners can be very well adapted.

I think they generally aren't, but the possibility should be allowed for. Even so. I don't like birthright citizenship, but to be fair, for anyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:07 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3447
Location: New York
Spools wrote:
Can you restate that with shorter sentences? It sounds like you're saying that in Germany there's birthright citizenship only for being the son of a German person.


Actually, that's not too far from the truth. German citizenship is mainly blood-based, so, for example, Eastern Europeans of German descent can acquire citizenship fairly easily, while the aforementioned Turks cannot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ending citizenship by birthright
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:59 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:39 am
Posts: 1756
Location: The border of civilization
Thinman wrote:
Or will guest worker programs and a high standard for full citizenship just create a new class of workers without government representation?

I have no doubt that the quoted phrase will be the outcome.

Since in Israel everyone who is non-Jewish is de facto a second-rate citizen, we don't care that much about immigrants.

_________________
Warning! The owner of this property is armed and willing to defend life, liberty and property.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:47 am 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 676
Location: Minneapolis, MN
tyciol wrote:
I like the idea. I see it as unfair that I get to be a Canadian for free (as well as people who flee here from oppression) simply due to being here. A lot of immigrants have to pass exams and be considered worthy to be a citizen.

That sucks, it's simply not fair. It takes away an opportunity to show that I'm worthy. I'd be a lot more of a proud citizen if I had to earn my right to be hear through written examination.

This would be a good thing to do for voting age. Basically, make it so children aren't citizens, they're under the care of citizens (parents) or the government (orphanages). Then, when they're old enough, they can apply for citizenship. When they pass, they get all the benefits and the vote.

Any problem with it? Makes sense to me...


Would you like to know more?

:p

Ok, I'll slink away now.

_________________
And thus, Grey wins. He's creating worthless drama in a totally unrelated thread even after he's been banned. - Emy

We're not mad. We're just argumentative. And we live in a state of fluctuating contempt for everything. - onion, when talking about herself and shoonra, actually describes the whole of kyhm forums.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:07 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:39 am
Posts: 1756
Location: The border of civilization
Vaergoth wrote:
tyciol wrote:
I like the idea. I see it as unfair that I get to be a Canadian for free (as well as people who flee here from oppression) simply due to being here. A lot of immigrants have to pass exams and be considered worthy to be a citizen.

That sucks, it's simply not fair. It takes away an opportunity to show that I'm worthy. I'd be a lot more of a proud citizen if I had to earn my right to be hear through written examination.

This would be a good thing to do for voting age. Basically, make it so children aren't citizens, they're under the care of citizens (parents) or the government (orphanages). Then, when they're old enough, they can apply for citizenship. When they pass, they get all the benefits and the vote.

Any problem with it? Makes sense to me...


Would you like to know more?

That... That was one of the most awesome things I've seen in a long time...
You just won my internet.

_________________
Warning! The owner of this property is armed and willing to defend life, liberty and property.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:46 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:14 pm
Posts: 2045
Vaergoth wrote:
Would you like to know more?

Well done.

_________________
All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:10 am 
Offline
<font color=red><b>STALKER/FAG ALERT.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:38 am
Posts: 1579
I don't get it... is it a reference to some dystopic scifi I haven't read?

_________________
USER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BANNED FOR THIS POST.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:59 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 3:14 pm
Posts: 2045
nick012000 wrote:
I don't get it... is it a reference to some dystopic scifi I haven't read?
The only good bug is a dead bug.

_________________
All articles that coruscate with resplendence are not truly auriferous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:18 am 
Offline
Green Text

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 4126
Location: Clouds, rain, and green fields...
Everyone is doing their part. Are you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:21 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 1373
Location: Virginia
I wanna join up and save the future!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:40 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 2:39 am
Posts: 1756
Location: The border of civilization
To defeat the bugs, we must understand the bugs!

The movie < The computer-animated series < The book.

_________________
Warning! The owner of this property is armed and willing to defend life, liberty and property.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group