Okay, so i've split these posts from the "Thread of no Return" because they were deviating futher and further off-topic and the longer I wait the worse things would have been when I eventually did split it. Because phpBB sucks, the post that started this discussion off was mangled, so here it is, duplicated in all it's glory:
ninjamonkey wrote:
im sorry tossrock, ive been waiting a LONG time to get this off my chest in its entirety. bare bones later, i want everyone to know MY theory and all the examples, evidence, and considerations i have to offer!
i believe evolution exists. i also, however, do not KNOW if there is a god. however, i feel i can PROOF POSITIVE both and the inextricable relationship between the two, in fact, if there is a god, he USES evolution in nature and that he orchestrated the entire universe to evolve without his help.
here are some examples:
no where in the bible, in any written script about god, whom billions believe in, that it is written that god uses science in the creation of things. but dont get me wrong: im not disproving science in any way. im only saying that god does not tell us about science, about different elements, celestial bodies we call comets, asteroids and planets and he certainly doesnt talk about electricity and chemical reactions.
because god has said nothing about them, doesnt mean theyre wrong.
we KNOW science exists and that science has lead to the discoveries of such things as electricity, different elements and technology.
what if god doesnt talk about science, in general, because he finds it unimportant to tell us how things work in the world? it could be truer than you think.
consider this:
when a child is playing too rough with a a dog, for example, you dont say, "you better stop, because he will bite you". well, maybe some fear driven, overcontrolling, safe-emo parents might, but what would SENSIBLE people do? they would let the child be bitten and then say, "you played too rough and he bit you. so dont play too rough."
my point is that if there is a god, he wants us to grow up learning on our own how things work. or else, this life would be too boring. we arent in that perfect paradise yet after the apocalyps when all peoples are enlightened, and god knows this! hes a parent that sees how important it is for us to develpoe on our own and make our own decisions. he treats us like old teenagers, as it should be.
now, for the inevitable main point of my rant:
if god is keeping us in the dark about how the universe works, and that not all the answers are found in the bible, wouldnt it make sense that he left out evolution for us to find it out?
i mean, he left out electricity, elements, celestial bodies and all kinds of other things that we know today exists, why not leave out evolution? it makes perfect sense: since evolution is a natural part of the world and that god left us out of the loop in the nature of the world, we can conclude that through the course of scientific research, we would inevitably stumble onto the truth of things, evolution being one.
"if there is a god, but we evolved from monkeys, then how does that fit into god's plan?"
this question is an ill-guided misconception established by the church to question the fundamentals of evolution. in no way does it make sense!
this question, for instance, wouldnt hold up in court: an objection of circumstancial interpretation doesn not validate the overall fact of the inquery at hand. in english, it means: "you question is LEADING towards a truth that can only be believed and taken in opinion. it does not mean it is fact. "
in so, you would HAVE to believe in that we came from monkeys, which couldnt happen, cuz god doesnt work like that. this sounds like you're trying to convince infants!
to answer that question though, is pretty easy, and throws it right out of the debate:
we didnt come from monkeys. we have similar ancestors. but then again, if evolution is a fact, we;re relatives of EVER living thing on the planet. in conclusion, i believe god uses evoltion for the continuation of the world in its OWN nature, that way, GOD DOES NOT HAVE TO INTERFERE
he doesnt stop the world and makes a miracle for every little problem every single person has because god sees that as interferance with the world and nature. therefore, i dont think god ever intended for us to know his true plan, which is true in the bible AND in science.
my conclusion:
if there is a god, he has a plan, we just dont know it. BUT, we do know how some things work in the world that god never told us in the bible. evolution might be one. hell, maybe he wiped out the dinosaurs so we could have a chance! and perhaps there are others in the universe, not on earth, that we dont about that are apart of our world because god put them there! if there is a god, we must put faith into him, but not act like babies and little kids, thinking that we know everything cuz everything is in the bible. its not all in the bible. god wants us to mature and learn and grow in our own way and figure things out for ouselves. evolution might be one of those things we have to find out. in the end, we'll never if god exists, but through the power of science, we can actually proof negative and proof positive our theories and evolution. it may exist, it might not...we should try to figure it out instead of arguing about it.