ZOMBIE FORUMS

It's a stinking, shambling corpse grotesquely parodying life.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:52 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:17 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:34 am
Posts: 2715
Location: Podunk, MI
ninjamonkey wrote:
my conclusion:
if there is a god, he has a plan, we just dont know it. BUT, we do know how some things work in the world that god never told us in the bible. evolution might be one. hell, maybe he wiped out the dinosaurs so we could have a chance! and perhaps there are others in the universe, not on earth, that we dont about that are apart of our world because god put them there! if there is a god, we must put faith into him, but not act like babies and little kids, thinking that we know everything cuz everything is in the bible. its not all in the bible. god wants us to mature and learn and grow in our own way and figure things out for ouselves. evolution might be one of those things we have to find out. in the end, we'll never if god exists, but through the power of science, we can actually proof negative and proof positive our theories and evolution. it may exist, it might not...we should try to figure it out instead of arguing about it.


I hate to do this, but... Firstly, you assume that if there is a sentient force that created us that they would have a plan for us. To assume this (while standard form, I guess) seems odd, but this isn't my major complaint. My major complaint stems from the fact that there's a huge logical hiccup here. Well, there's a few, but here's a major one that deals directly with what you're saying.

Let's continue the analogy you provided in your post about the child playing with the dog. Obviously, a parent *would* step in if the child found out too much; E.G.: If the kid accidentally hurt the dog through play, and the dog got very, very violent. There would be no "Now you know better"'s unless the parent were neglecting the child. Continuing this analogy, we see a fault- if the parent doesn't step in and help the kid out directly, the kid will be forever changed in a way that impedes its ability to exist. Essentially, the God you're talking about would would be no fostering entity at all if it did not directly come in and give some amount of intervention at some point in the span of humanity.

We can see modern day examples of things that happened in the bible on a much smaller scale that were smote, and yet these same acts are resulting in nothing occuring. No massive flood brought down by fourty days and nights of rain, no fire, no brimstone. Perhaps God, then, has decided that we are to choose our own path, but this is inconsistent with your portrayal- while we may have free reign to do what we want, it seems strange to allow for such change of heart in a being that we're likening to a parent. The protective parent idea dies quickly under this, as why would a parent ever stop caring for the child it has created?

Your ideas are all very broken, in my eyes. If I've missed something, please let me know.

Love,

Rustykins

P.S.: Added bonus time, because I feel like it.

ninjamonkey wrote:
in so, you would HAVE to believe in that we came from monkeys, which couldnt happen, cuz god doesnt work like that. this sounds like you're trying to convince infants!


The day you can accurately describe what God does and does not do is the day I will eat a pound of mud of my choosing.

_________________
"Oh, look who it is / It's my supportive wife/ And she thinks she's going to squeal/ Hey where do you think you're going?/ Don't you walk away from me/ You put down that telephone /You're not calling anyone"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:37 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:31 am
Posts: 1587
Location: Bay Area
ninjamonkey wrote:
too many words


See, this is what I'm talking about. You post something long and poorly formatted, and then I don't read it. You haven't done anyone a favor, here!

Come on, man up and say it. "I don't believe in evolution!" Quick and to the point. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better afterwards.

_________________
<img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f340/Tossrock/sigreducedjx2-1.jpg">


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:17 am 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 1276
Location: Hanging in the endless void with nothing but entropy and fluff for company.
Tossrock wrote:
ninjamonkey wrote:
too many words


See, this is what I'm talking about. You post something long and poorly formatted, and then I don't read it. You haven't done anyone a favor, here!

Come on, man up and say it. "I don't believe in evolution!" Quick and to the point. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better afterwards.


Quoted for MOTHER FUCKING TRUTH. It was bad enough reading through the poorly formatted quote Rusty (bless his heart for doing it) took the time to dig out. I've been kind obsessing with getting people over to the debate board recently, much to Lifyre's chagrin, and trying to get people to make better, more informed/detailed posts here. For anyone who thinks I mean I want you to rant and say nothing at all, fuck no. Nobody will read that crap. It's the same thing that happens when you start yelling at somebody and they hear your yelling instead of what you're saying. So, yeah. Basically get to the damn point, but make sure you organize it well and back it up with necessary sources if you can. If you have to say it in a page, do it but don't expect everybody to like you for it.

_________________
~ Wrin
Labrat wrote:
As screwed up as the world is, it has to have been designed by comittee. Diskworld-style.

Jin wrote:
...I cursed at the computer screen for an hour and a half while striking it with my genitals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:24 am 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 729
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Rusty wrote:
Some stuff that was well thought out and made sense and was additionally backed up wih evidence.
Essentially God was tired of all the smoting so he sent Jesus to allow us through our own belief in him a chance to go to heaven. So god doesn't need to have miracle after miracle anymore. we either believe and go to heaven or we don't and go to hell. It's our choice to make and I think that he figures we can make it.

_________________
“Justice is a cruel cruel truckload of pointy crapâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:30 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:34 am
Posts: 2715
Location: Podunk, MI
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
Rusty wrote:
Some stuff that was well thought out and made sense and was additionally backed up wih evidence.
Essentially God was tired of all the smoting so he sent Jesus to allow us through our own belief in him a chance to go to heaven. So god doesn't need to have miracle after miracle anymore. we either believe and go to heaven or we don't and go to hell. It's our choice to make and I think that he figures we can make it.


Ah, the Jesus card. Your statement, however (The bolded one), seems odd as compared to prior interpretations of God, such as the jewish belief system. Now, I'm fairly certain a large chunk of christians would agree that they hold the same god as jewish folk. Are jews going to hell? This is where things get odd.

_________________
"Oh, look who it is / It's my supportive wife/ And she thinks she's going to squeal/ Hey where do you think you're going?/ Don't you walk away from me/ You put down that telephone /You're not calling anyone"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:23 pm 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 729
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Rusty wrote:
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
Rusty wrote:
Some stuff that was well thought out and made sense and was additionally backed up wih evidence.
Essentially God was tired of all the smoting so he sent Jesus to allow us through our own belief in him a chance to go to heaven. So god doesn't need to have miracle after miracle anymore. we either believe and go to heaven or we don't and go to hell. It's our choice to make and I think that he figures we can make it.


Are jews going to hell? This is where things get odd.


You already know my answer so there was no need to ask. Yes, my belief system says that although the Jews worship the same god they don't believe that god was willing to send his one and only son to die for our sins. Therefore, they are going to hell just like anybody else that doesn't believe in my religion.

I like the way Michael Poe buts it best. "We are all going to someone's hell" So I'll see yeah there buddy.

_________________
“Justice is a cruel cruel truckload of pointy crapâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:09 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 1276
Location: Hanging in the endless void with nothing but entropy and fluff for company.
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
I like the way Michael Poe puts it best. "We are all going to someone's hell," so I'll see y<strike>e</strike>ah there buddy.


That's a depressing way to look at death. Wait... Anyway, I'm still waiting for TC to post again, but for now I guess this has kind of evolved into another discussion so I'll go along with that. Isn't it the case as per the Book O' Christ that truly good people go to heaven anyway, just that God doesn't think anyone is really pure enough to make it without Jesus's help? Am I mistaken on this?

_________________
~ Wrin
Labrat wrote:
As screwed up as the world is, it has to have been designed by comittee. Diskworld-style.

Jin wrote:
...I cursed at the computer screen for an hour and a half while striking it with my genitals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:51 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:34 am
Posts: 2715
Location: Podunk, MI
My point, simply, is this: Introducing the aspect of a higher entity calling the shots conflicts with scientific thought in that science calls for a deliberate and thurough questioning of the currently accepted principles. If we're questioning the very entity we're striving to believe in, it leads to some really, really weird conflicts of interest.

_________________
"Oh, look who it is / It's my supportive wife/ And she thinks she's going to squeal/ Hey where do you think you're going?/ Don't you walk away from me/ You put down that telephone /You're not calling anyone"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:52 pm 
Offline
Local
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 368
Location: Washington
Rusty wrote:
My point, simply, is this: Introducing the aspect of a higher entity calling the shots conflicts with scientific thought in that science calls for a deliberate and thurough questioning of the currently accepted principles. If we're questioning the very entity we're striving to believe in, it leads to some really, really weird conflicts of interest.


Yep, unfortunately scientists can't make things up to support their argument like creationists can.

Scientist:"We and all living things are a product of evolution, which takes place over a very long period of time."

Creationist:"God invented evolution and also time--I WIN!"

_________________
----
dA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:07 pm 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 729
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Wrin wrote:
Isn't it the case as per the Book O' Christ that truly good people go to heaven anyway, just that God doesn't think anyone is really pure enough to make it without Jesus's help? Am I mistaken on this?


I'm going to state what I remember and I hope that Tactics could back me up. In the catholic bible when Jesus died it was to wash away all of our sins since no matter how good we are we're not good enough to get into heaven, but what a lot of people don't know is that when Jesus died for three days he was in hell rounding up all the saints before he and them went back to heaven. No matter how good you are you have to admit that you are a sinfull creature and ask for forgiveness before you get into heaven.

_________________
“Justice is a cruel cruel truckload of pointy crapâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:28 pm 
Offline
PostWhorePornStar
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:00 pm
Posts: 7672
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
Wrin wrote:
Isn't it the case as per the Book O' Christ that truly good people go to heaven anyway, just that God doesn't think anyone is really pure enough to make it without Jesus's help? Am I mistaken on this?


I'm going to state what I remember and I hope that Tactics could back me up. In the catholic bible when Jesus died it was to wash away all of our sins since no matter how good we are we're not good enough to get into heaven, but what a lot of people don't know is that when Jesus died for three days he was in hell rounding up all the saints before he and them went back to heaven. No matter how good you are you have to admit that you are a sinfull creature and ask for forgiveness before you get into heaven.


Must be a lonely place with all the non-christians in the world and all of those who have never been.



Also, Jewish belief isn't so much as a heaven, but when the messiah comes eternal life on Earth, hence Jesus not being the messiah they wanted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:42 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:31 am
Posts: 1587
Location: Bay Area
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
what a lot of people don't know is that when Jesus died for three days he was in hell rounding up all the saints before he and them went back to heaven.


That's apocryphal, I can assure you. I've got my New American Fireside edition within arms reach, if you care to challenge me.

_________________
<img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f340/Tossrock/sigreducedjx2-1.jpg">


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:48 pm 
Offline
Native
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 729
Location: everywhere and nowhere
Tossrock wrote:
That's apocryphal
As in a prophecy? I really don't want to challange you scince as I stated before I have no proof what-so-ever.

_________________
“Justice is a cruel cruel truckload of pointy crapâ€


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:58 pm 
Offline
Spawn of Kyhm and D
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 4498
Location: Australia
Seriously, when Loki breaks free of his chains, and Fenrir swallows the sun, you are all fucked bigtime.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Sorry for the inconveniance folks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:05 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 3706
Okay, so i've split these posts from the "Thread of no Return" because they were deviating futher and further off-topic and the longer I wait the worse things would have been when I eventually did split it. Because phpBB sucks, the post that started this discussion off was mangled, so here it is, duplicated in all it's glory:

ninjamonkey wrote:
im sorry tossrock, ive been waiting a LONG time to get this off my chest in its entirety. bare bones later, i want everyone to know MY theory and all the examples, evidence, and considerations i have to offer!



i believe evolution exists. i also, however, do not KNOW if there is a god. however, i feel i can PROOF POSITIVE both and the inextricable relationship between the two, in fact, if there is a god, he USES evolution in nature and that he orchestrated the entire universe to evolve without his help.


here are some examples:

no where in the bible, in any written script about god, whom billions believe in, that it is written that god uses science in the creation of things. but dont get me wrong: im not disproving science in any way. im only saying that god does not tell us about science, about different elements, celestial bodies we call comets, asteroids and planets and he certainly doesnt talk about electricity and chemical reactions.

because god has said nothing about them, doesnt mean theyre wrong.

we KNOW science exists and that science has lead to the discoveries of such things as electricity, different elements and technology.

what if god doesnt talk about science, in general, because he finds it unimportant to tell us how things work in the world? it could be truer than you think.

consider this:
when a child is playing too rough with a a dog, for example, you dont say, "you better stop, because he will bite you". well, maybe some fear driven, overcontrolling, safe-emo parents might, but what would SENSIBLE people do? they would let the child be bitten and then say, "you played too rough and he bit you. so dont play too rough."

my point is that if there is a god, he wants us to grow up learning on our own how things work. or else, this life would be too boring. we arent in that perfect paradise yet after the apocalyps when all peoples are enlightened, and god knows this! hes a parent that sees how important it is for us to develpoe on our own and make our own decisions. he treats us like old teenagers, as it should be.

now, for the inevitable main point of my rant:
if god is keeping us in the dark about how the universe works, and that not all the answers are found in the bible, wouldnt it make sense that he left out evolution for us to find it out?

i mean, he left out electricity, elements, celestial bodies and all kinds of other things that we know today exists, why not leave out evolution? it makes perfect sense: since evolution is a natural part of the world and that god left us out of the loop in the nature of the world, we can conclude that through the course of scientific research, we would inevitably stumble onto the truth of things, evolution being one.

"if there is a god, but we evolved from monkeys, then how does that fit into god's plan?"

this question is an ill-guided misconception established by the church to question the fundamentals of evolution. in no way does it make sense!

this question, for instance, wouldnt hold up in court: an objection of circumstancial interpretation doesn not validate the overall fact of the inquery at hand. in english, it means: "you question is LEADING towards a truth that can only be believed and taken in opinion. it does not mean it is fact. "

in so, you would HAVE to believe in that we came from monkeys, which couldnt happen, cuz god doesnt work like that. this sounds like you're trying to convince infants!

to answer that question though, is pretty easy, and throws it right out of the debate:
we didnt come from monkeys. we have similar ancestors. but then again, if evolution is a fact, we;re relatives of EVER living thing on the planet. in conclusion, i believe god uses evoltion for the continuation of the world in its OWN nature, that way, GOD DOES NOT HAVE TO INTERFERE

he doesnt stop the world and makes a miracle for every little problem every single person has because god sees that as interferance with the world and nature. therefore, i dont think god ever intended for us to know his true plan, which is true in the bible AND in science.

my conclusion:
if there is a god, he has a plan, we just dont know it. BUT, we do know how some things work in the world that god never told us in the bible. evolution might be one. hell, maybe he wiped out the dinosaurs so we could have a chance! and perhaps there are others in the universe, not on earth, that we dont about that are apart of our world because god put them there! if there is a god, we must put faith into him, but not act like babies and little kids, thinking that we know everything cuz everything is in the bible. its not all in the bible. god wants us to mature and learn and grow in our own way and figure things out for ouselves. evolution might be one of those things we have to find out. in the end, we'll never if god exists, but through the power of science, we can actually proof negative and proof positive our theories and evolution. it may exist, it might not...we should try to figure it out instead of arguing about it.

_________________
There's mischief and malarkies but no queers or yids or darkies
within this bastard's carnival, this vicious cabaret.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:38 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:31 am
Posts: 1587
Location: Bay Area
Destroyer_of_ants wrote:
Tossrock wrote:
That's apocryphal
As in a prophecy? I really don't want to challange you scince as I stated before I have no proof what-so-ever.


www.dictionary.com


I'm awesome because both of the meanings work.

_________________
<img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f340/Tossrock/sigreducedjx2-1.jpg">


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:22 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:00 pm
Posts: 4439
Location: You can't take the sky from me. Since I found Serenity.
Ezelek wrote:
Seriously, when Loki breaks free of his chains, and Fenrir swallows the sun, you are all fucked bigtime.


Dude, I don't want to be killed by an undead army from Niflheim.

_________________
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:10 pm 
Offline
Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:31 am
Posts: 1587
Location: Bay Area
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Ezelek wrote:
Seriously, when Loki breaks free of his chains, and Fenrir swallows the sun, you are all fucked bigtime.


Dude, I don't want to be killed by an undead army from Niflheim.


Don't worry about it, the fire giants will get you first.

_________________
<img src="http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f340/Tossrock/sigreducedjx2-1.jpg">


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:34 pm 
Offline
Local
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 368
Location: Washington
The end of the world?

Pfft!

Don't worry. Marduk, Slayer of Tiamat cares not for the desicated viscera of you mindicants ; )

_________________
----
dA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:48 pm 
Offline
Addict

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 5:00 pm
Posts: 3759
Location: your house, your living room, your sofa
Marduk totally rules.

_________________
Where in the name of Deus Ex Machina did that T-Rex come from?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group